scrubbedexpat099

This is about drugs and crime.

carcajou

This is not, by any means, a new issue in Seattle.

I remember when I moved there (over a decade ago) the issue of homelessness was very confronting - not just the visibility of the issue, but the relative denial most of the government and population were in about this problem even existing. There is a homeless "tent city" there (or there was then) that rotated to various spots around the city and I remember a furor erupting when some professors tried to get it temporarily put on the grounds of the University of Washington.

Much of the Western part of the US has the same issue. I remember being in Reno and San Francisco in 2004, and it stood out very clearly there too. Much more than on the East Coast.

kimilseung

No it's not. Not in Seattle. (And I infer elsewhere too, if Seattle is an example of the discussion)

scrubbedexpat099

Watch the video.

Certainly is in Denver, we have not reached West Coast levels but are heading that way.

kimilseung

Your Denversplaining has me completely convinced I have misheard everyone for years.

scrubbedexpat099

OK, I realise you are not going to watch the video and you have answered my earlier question as to why this is allowed to happen.

scrubbedexpat091

Addiction and mental illness are certainly some of the reasons for homelessness, other reasons are lack of income or insufficient income to afford housing.

City's like Vancouver, San Francisco, Seattle, LA, San Diego etc have such high housing costs , it leaves a lot of people without housing even when they have income.

Many of these city's also have a highly competitive rental market, so landlords can be very very picky. Here the rental vacancy rate has been at 1% or less for half a decade, rentals are hard to find, let alone affordable rentals.

scrubbedexpat099

For those who have not watched the film 100% of those involved were addicts.

Steerpike

I don't think it's fair to characterize this as 'rich people having to suffer seeing the poor people'. Just look at the very first non-homeless guy featured in the video; he's an average guy trying to run his small shop, and has to deal with an army of homeless outside his store. He can't easily move, he's probably losing customers as a result, and he's likely not making much money on account of high rents, etc. What course of action would you suggest for him personally?

It's not just a matter of 'seeing poor people'. many of these homeless people are 'aggressive' to say the least. My girlfriend used to be scared to walk down the street between her office and the bus stop, due to very aggressive pan-handling. The homeless also specifically target people at bus-stops, and even get on public transit and harass the riders for money.

I lived in SF for 10+ years back in the 80s/90s and finally left the city for the 'burbs, and this was a key factor - not only was the problem pretty bad back then, but there seemed to be absolutely nothing anyone could do about it - that was the frustration. I worked hard, and paid a lot of taxes - Fed, State, and local. I have never objected to ever paying any tax, and the way I view things, we pay taxes and elect local officials to take care of these issues on our behalf.

It is a horrible problem. Many homeless are in need of psychiatric care, and funding for such things is scarce. I would gladly pay for this through taxes. I suspect 'most' homeless have a drug/alcohol problem (I know that if I had to sleep outdoors every night, I'd be self-medicating to knock myself out every night). There are homeless shelters, but I believe many of them are single-sex, and all of them have curfews and rules about no drugs/alcohol. So, many homeless choose to stay homeless rather than go to a shelter that requires them to stop taking drugs (which is not easy) and/or, requires them to split up (if they are a couple). Efforts to forcibly relocate a homeless person into a shelter are objected to by homeless advocates, who claim this is a violation of their rights. Efforts to break up 'camps' are also fought by advocates, even though they are illegal and this would act as an incentive to go into shelters and programs. So it's an ugly, ugly mess that seems to have no real solution in sight.

On top of all the above, you also have a good number of homeless youth who simply don't want to work, and don't want to stay home. They are choosing to live on the streets as a lifestyle choice. I'm not saying this component is the majority, but it's a sizable component. These tend to be disillusioned kids who could get jobs in McDonalds or whatever but don't feel that is 'right for them'. You see an awful lot of this on Haight St in San Francisco - groups of young kids with dogs sitting on the sidewalks panhandling; able-bodied kids choosing this way of living.

This is a problem somewhat unique to the West Coast for two reasons - 1) you have a relatively mild climate that is conducive to outdoor living (compared to just about anywhere on the East Coast or MidWest where the winters are unbearable and the summers also brutal), and 2) you have very liberal local councils who are less inclined to enforce the various laws that allow for some degree of control. Anyone not living in and around these West Coast cities is probably unaware of the magnitude of the situation - it's simply mind-boggling and shocking to see the scale and scope homeless camps in San Francisco.

Steerpike

If you look at the chart in the video showing homeless rates, you'll see New York City is at the lowest end of the scale; it used to be near the top. I honestly don't know the details of what NYC did to address the problem, but it was successful somehow. So this may not be an 'unavoidable fact of modern life' as you portray.

As bad as these homeless camps are, and as bad as homelessness is in the city as a whole, I can tell you that you'll likely find many areas are unaffected. It's hard to explain, but just like after a natural disaster where they show on TV how a neighborhood is burned out, or flooded, or whatever, they are focusing on one area to dramatize the issue. Just choose your living area carefully.

scrubbedexpat099

I know there are issues in Denver and I would have second thoughts going down to the 16th St Mall, also a major problem with Libraries.

At the end of the film they have about 10 minutes on Rhode Island who followed the Swiss approach. To be clear this is not a money issue, the direct and indirect costs are significant, the amount spent in not dealing with the issue is more than enough to put in a programme.

scrubbedexpat091

If you have never been to Vancouver, DTES. We live about 5 min bus ride away, so we get a fair amount of overflow from the DTES. I don't know if we are the worst in North America when it comes to this situation like the video say's but I would imagine we are towards the top, its quite a bad and sad situation all around in what keeps being called one of the most livable city's.

Hotscot

Anyone know if London is comparable these days?
Just wonderin'

scrubbedexpat099

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...elessness.html I do not want to get off topic but as the housing crisis was mentioned which is a much more difficult issue, here coincidentally is a story from today about LA.

scrubbedexpat091

We have thought about buying an old RV and living in it. We pay below market rent for our unit compared to comparable units in the area, but its still 21,000 a year, on a 33,000 income, can get a used RV for around 2-3 months rent, insurance and gas isn't too bad, and well its cheaper then 21,000 a year for rent.