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the Scottish independence issue

the Scottish independence issue

Old Dec 14th 2013, 4:12 pm
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Default the Scottish independence issue

I'll admit that I'm not an expat but wanted to ask Britons how they feel about the referendum that could potentially make Scotland its own country.

I already know your football teams compete not as the UK but England, Scotland, Whales etc. Even citizens I've spoken with seem to identify more with their status as "English" or "Scottish" before being "British."

So how do you all feel about Scotland possibly going independent in 2014 and how do you identify with your national status?
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 4:16 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

There is little chance of the 'Yes' vote so I haven't thought about it too much, but instinctively I don't really care. If Scotland chooses to isolate itself by having to rejoin the EU, NATO and every other international body I think it's being pretty stupid.

What i do not want is for them to be allowed to continue to use the £, nor to relay on the remaining UK for it's defence. You want to strike out on your own fine, start from scratch.

Last edited by civilservant; Dec 14th 2013 at 4:44 pm.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

I am an avowed unionist when it comes to all parts of the UK, I see Scottish independence as an issue that would negatively affect both Scotland and the rest of the UK in terms of defense and economy, Scottish regiments play a massive role in the armed forces, also in light of the recent global rescission, I believe countries like Scotland Northern Ireland and Wales were insulated from the worst effects of it by being part of a bigger block that had Pound Sterling as it's currency. Also on a more emotional level taking Scotland out of the UK would be like taking Texas out of the UK, everyone makes fun of them but in some ways they are the heart of the nation (and they have oil too).
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 4:30 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

Wales not Whales.

It's a very complex issue much harder than just claiming independence. So much of the structure and governance of the UK is heavily intertwined.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 4:42 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

My apologies for misspelling "Wales" and I too believe the vote will keep them in the Union.

I remember learning that Quebec had a similar vote in the early 90's and I was very surprised, I'm not even Canadian.

I know if a state like California or Texas were going to vote to see if they wanted to declare independence from the United States it would be front page news and cause quite a concern in this country. I'm curious to see what comes out of all this referendum business.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 5:03 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

Originally Posted by Go Lers View Post

I remember learning that Quebec had a similar vote in the early 90's and I was very surprised, I'm not even Canadian.
They're always trying it.

Bit like Scotland, it'll never happen once the bills start rolling in.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

I am more concerned that the UK may vote to leave the EU.

I have to admit I don't understand how Scottish independence would work, if it would shut them up it would be a good thing.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 5:47 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

Originally Posted by Go Lers View Post
I'll admit that I'm not an expat but wanted to ask Britons how they feel about the referendum that could potentially make Scotland its own country.

I already know your football teams compete not as the UK but England, Scotland, Whales etc. Even citizens I've spoken with seem to identify more with their status as "English" or "Scottish" before being "British."

So how do you all feel about Scotland possibly going independent in 2014 and how do you identify with your national status?
Don't care one way or another as it's unlikely to affect me too much, living in England. As far as national identity is concerned, I'm British not English.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

May the Yank have a word?

The best argument so far, as far as I'm concerned, is the one about Texas leaving the USA. I had not thought of it like that. Honestly I was thinking of it in terms of the American Civil War, having spent a large part of my childhood in the Deep South.

However, I notice that people, even Scottish people, even English and Welsh and Northern Irish people, seem to get to the bare idea of separation, and to not be able to think past that very well. They think in terms of "what if Scotland had full independence today, what would happen?" But that seems like catastrophic thinking to me, and not very realistic.

Surely any independence process, and it would be a process whether anyone likes it or not, would take ten to twenty years or more to implement. It can't be approached like ripping off someone's legs and wondering how the legs and the body would survive without each other. There would have to be treaties, agreements, mutual understandings, economic contracts, whatever you can think of. Perhaps they would be so extensive and binding that the two countries would be joined in all but name. I think it's overwhelmingly likely that some sort of dual citizenship agreement would be considered for the Scots as they do for the Northern Irish.

And when I think of Northern Ireland, that's when my mind comes to a halt. My husband is Northern Irish and his family opts out, as best they can, of sectarianism (they are nominally Protestant but there are Catholic members, atheist members, family in England and America and Germany, etc.). When I was in Aberdeen last, on a business trip for the oil-related company I work for, I spoke to people with very strong opinions indeed on both sides of the issue, so strong that my primary fear is not for the survival of Scotland as an entity, or for the survival of the UK as a Scotland-less entity, but the safety of everyone if hostilities arise. Maybe I'm just thinking catastrophically myself.

I should mention that it's my husband's and my hope to eventually settle in Aberdeen some day in the future, so yes, I've done some thinking about this.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 8:00 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

I spoke to people with very strong opinions indeed on both sides of the issue, so strong that my primary fear is not for the survival of Scotland as an entity, or for the survival of the UK as a Scotland-less entity, but the safety of everyone if hostilities arise.
The UK will still have nuclear weapons. We win
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

I don't really follow British politics and public affairs closely, and haven't been reading much about the Scottish independence issue.

But - wasn't the United Kingdom formed by the union of two equal partners, two independent kingdoms; Scotland and England? (Wales was just subsumed within England at that time, I believe.). If Scotland chooses to dissolve this union, what gives the rump (England) ownership of the armed forces, the pound sterling, and all the other UK prerogatives, including the seat in the UN etc? I know that in fact, England is larger, wealthier and more populous, and for whatever practical reasons, London was chosen as the seat of the union government in 1603 .... After all, if there was no Northern Ireland and no Wales, England could hardly keep calling itself the United Kingdom if Scotland withdrew from the union.

Personally, I'm a unionist myself, and I agree with others that the majority in Scotland will probably reject independence, but still..
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 8:25 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
The UK will still have nuclear weapons. We win
Most of the big submarine bases are in Scotland.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 8:49 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

Scotland is pretty much independent in all but name anyway. It's not like the English conquered the Scots all those years ago. They were broke and wanted to join, like a medieval bailout LOL. If they vote independence, they are still in all likelihood gonna keep the queen as head of state, keep the pound and rely on their southern neighbour economically. I don't see too much difference myself. As an Englishman though, I don't care. If they vote yes, good luck to em.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 9:51 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

Originally Posted by sir_eccles View Post
Most of the big submarine bases are in Scotland.
Obviously they won't be in the event if independence, besides there is no reason why they cannot be berthed at Devonport - it's sufficiently deep. It;s just not as easy to defend, which is why they placed in Scotland in the first place.
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Old Dec 14th 2013, 10:02 pm
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Default Re: the Scottish independence issue

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
Obviously they won't be in the event if independence, besides there is no reason why they cannot be berthed at Devonport - it's sufficiently deep. It;s just not as easy to defend, which is why they placed in Scotland in the first place.
Further, I believe there are currently no US military bases in Scotland, although I understand that the SNP has gone to the Americans and intimated that they would be willing to host NATO forces, if non nuclear.
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