British Expats
Page 4 of 7
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   The Trailer Park (https://britishexpats.com/forum/trailer-park-96/)
-   -   Schools in the USA (https://britishexpats.com/forum/trailer-park-96/schools-usa-835883/)

scrubbedexpat097 Jun 30th 2014 1:36 pm
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by shughes007 (Post 11318528)
I am not current with standards in UK schools any more although it gave me a good, well rounded education. US education tends to be braod but shallow. Teachers work very hard and get a lot of criticism. If your kids are respectful and not trouble makers the teachers will like them. Like any where there are good and bad teachers most like UK are average. My advice is tell your kids tacher thay are their favorite teacher and that teacher will be the best teacher they can be with your kids. They are not used to praise. Becaue teachers are not trusted most of the tests are true / False, or multi choice. Answers are either right or wrong. This stops the parent who says why did my kid only get a B+ or an 89 when he should have got a 90. Parents think their kid deserves an A for showing up. C is not average here, it is considered failing.if you tell your parent your child is average they don't want to hear that. They think they are better than they really are. Parents show up for sporting events but not parent conferences once the child hits 7th grade. American children are used to dominating their parents and getting their way, so if there are problems the parent is going to take their kids word over yours.





Really???:blink: Wow...just wow:confused:

Anian Jul 1st 2014 3:48 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by shughes007 (Post 11320614)
I find very bright kids and slower moving kids suffer in the USA elementary system, again why so many about 20 % are special education.
Washington state has recently mandated that the hi-cap program be applied to all grades now, even kindergarten. It is basically a system for getting the brightest so they are able to move at a faster pace. My daughter has just been accepted to start in it next year (2nd grade), so she'll be in a different class with all the other hi-cap students. Big relief, since she gets so bored in regular class, several people in her class this year didn't even know all the letters of the alphabet.

scrubbedexpat091 Jul 1st 2014 9:06 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Anian (Post 11321427)
Washington state has recently mandated that the hi-cap program be applied to all grades now, even kindergarten. It is basically a system for getting the brightest so they are able to move at a faster pace. My daughter has just been accepted to start in it next year (2nd grade), so she'll be in a different class with all the other hi-cap students. Big relief, since she gets so bored in regular class, several people in her class this year didn't even know all the letters of the alphabet.
Looking back on my report cards and comments teachers made, I think boredom was the biggest reason I did so poorly in school. The comments are littered with student is always complaining about being bored, shows no interest in following the class, usually working on the next project or assignment, and so on.

Only subject where I really struggle is math, but the school did pull me out of class everyday during math time grade 1 to 6, so its really no wonder why I struggle, I was never in class to learn it....

Only reason I graduated high school was because I had a math teacher in grade 11 and 12 who knew I had zero idea how to do the math, and just passed me for making the best effort I could, other then math, I did well in high school for the most part, some classes I just had no desire to be in and didn't do well by choice, PE, music, and art, hated them all so did the bare minimum, but I excelled in Biology, Photography both of which I loved and spent hours working to perfect my work.

scrubbedexpat091 Jul 1st 2014 9:08 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by shughes007 (Post 11318528)
I am not current with standards in UK schools any more although it gave me a good, well rounded education. US education tends to be braod but shallow. Teachers work very hard and get a lot of criticism. If your kids are respectful and not trouble makers the teachers will like them. Like any where there are good and bad teachers most like UK are average. My advice is tell your kids tacher thay are their favorite teacher and that teacher will be the best teacher they can be with your kids. They are not used to praise. Becaue teachers are not trusted most of the tests are true / False, or multi choice. Answers are either right or wrong. This stops the parent who says why did my kid only get a B+ or an 89 when he should have got a 90. Parents think their kid deserves an A for showing up. C is not average here, it is considered failing.if you tell your parent your child is average they don't want to hear that. They think they are better than they really are. Parents show up for sporting events but not parent conferences once the child hits 7th grade. American children are used to dominating their parents and getting their way, so if there are problems the parent is going to take their kids word over yours.
Multiple choice makes the best sense to me, there is no room for opinion to get in the way, and gives all students the best chance.

All essays prove is someone is a better writer but doesn't necessarily mean they know the material.

Sally Redux Jul 1st 2014 9:12 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 11321773)
Multiple choice makes the best sense to me, there is no room for opinion to get in the way, and gives all students the best chance.

All essays prove is someone is a better writer but doesn't necessarily mean they know the material.
I don't agree. The kids just work out what they need to know for the test and don't bother with other stuff. Drove me nuts when my kids were learning French, particularly.

AmerLisa Jul 1st 2014 9:18 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Anian (Post 11321427)
Washington state has recently mandated that the hi-cap program be applied to all grades now, even kindergarten. It is basically a system for getting the brightest so they are able to move at a faster pace. My daughter has just been accepted to start in it next year (2nd grade), so she'll be in a different class with all the other hi-cap students. Big relief, since she gets so bored in regular class, several people in her class this year didn't even know all the letters of the alphabet.
Glad to hear that your daughter is moving on to the more rigorous class. Our daughter started last year and it really has made a huge difference in how she does academically and what she thinks of school in general.

scrubbedexpat099 Jul 1st 2014 9:22 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
I have done quite a few multiple guess exams since I have been here, the last one I was feeling ill all day so dozed through the class.

Much to my surprise and I think the guy hosting I got 100%.

Usually if there are 4 questions there are 2 that are obviously wrong, you will get some questions answered in other questions so you are up to 60% before you start. If you do random from there that takes you to 80% which will pass most.

scrubbedexpat091 Jul 1st 2014 9:29 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Sally Redux (Post 11321777)
I don't agree. The kids just work out what they need to know for the test and don't bother with other stuff. Drove me nuts when my kids were learning French, particularly.
I am a poor writer so essays and me don't get along.

Give me 2 tests one with essay questions, and one with multiple choice, and I'll pass the multiple choice with high marks, but will do very poorly on written essay answers as I have a difficult time with writing.

Essay tests put the disadvantage kids at a more disadvantage even if they know all the material.

Plus without a clear right/wrong answer, the grade is just the teachers opinion and nothing more.

Tests are stupid anyway, they don't prove anything, and 99% of what I study for a test is lost afterwards, better to teach skills then wasteful academics, no need to put someone in French unless they want to learn and use French, otherwise its a waste of time. Like me and Spanish, I had no desire to learn it, just memorized what I needed to pass, but didn't retain anything from it.

I would have benefited far more from spending that year learning an actual skill of some sort that was of value.

But I am not for the one size fits all educational system, it doesn't work, never has worked, and never will work. People are too different with too many different abilities to randomly shove people into a class and expect them all to do well and learn.

Sally Redux Jul 1st 2014 9:33 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 11321803)
I am a poor writer so essays and me don't get along.

Give me 2 tests one with essay questions, and one with multiple choice, and I'll pass the multiple choice with high marks, but will do very poorly on written essay answers as I have a difficult time with writing.

Essay tests put the disadvantage kids at a more disadvantage even if they know all the material.

Plus without a clear right/wrong answer, the grade is just the teachers opinion and nothing more.
Breaking down a subject into multiple choice questions kills it.

There may not be clear right/wrong answers in subjects like history and literature.

Yes, teachers' opinions - the things that made it a respected profession at one time.

scrubbedexpat091 Jul 1st 2014 9:48 am
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Sally Redux (Post 11321812)
Breaking down a subject into multiple choice questions kills it.

There may not be clear right/wrong answers in subjects like history and literature.

Yes, teachers' opinions - the things that made it a respected profession at one time.
And those with difficulty putting their thoughts into words should just suffer?

If people are going to insist on a one size fits all educational system as we have, then the testing has to be able to accommodate the slower learners to make it a level ground. Otherwise those who excel in writing will always have the upper hand.

Sally Redux Jul 1st 2014 1:08 pm
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 11321827)
And those with difficulty putting their thoughts into words should just suffer?

If people are going to insist on a one size fits all educational system as we have, then the testing has to be able to accommodate the slower learners to make it a level ground. Otherwise those who excel in writing will always have the upper hand.
I would say multiple choice testing is the one size fits all.

The ability to research and write is a necessary transferable skill. Learning facts for a multiple choice test is a different kind of skill, in my view not so valuable.

At higher levels the student will have to put his or her thoughts into words; rote learning for tests doesn't work then. Therefore it is best to try to improve the abilities of those who struggle with it, or they will have to stop at a certain point anyway.

Lion in Winter Jul 1st 2014 2:21 pm
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 11321827)
And those with difficulty putting their thoughts into words should just suffer?

If people are going to insist on a one size fits all educational system as we have, then the testing has to be able to accommodate the slower learners to make it a level ground. Otherwise those who excel in writing will always have the upper hand.
How will you test a student's appreciation of literature, or help them develop their ideas about a poem or the expression of a philosophical or political idea if you do not require them to write it down? How will you help them develop their ideas and communicate them to others if they don't learn to write? You don't always have the chance to make speeches, and usually a good speaker has also learned to write because that is how ideas are organized and developed.

You say that those who have difficulty putting their thoughts into words should not suffer, and that those who can write will always have the upper hand. But it isn't as easy as that. If I had been limited to yes/no answers and the kinds of subjects that can be tested by yes/no, I would certainly have suffered in my exam results and my future.

We aren't all the same and you can't produce an educational testing system that works if you try to pretend that they are. If you can't write, you have to learn (up to a certain level at least, even if you aren't James Joyce) just as I had to learn maths, chemistry, and physics up to a certain level. I spent a long time struggling with those subjects because they don't come naturally to me. Obviously I didn't specialize in those later, just took them through GCSE, just as someone who isn't strong in writing will probably not specialize in a subject that requires a lot of it.

scrubbedexpat091 Jul 1st 2014 3:04 pm
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 11322090)
How will you test a student's appreciation of literature, or help them develop their ideas about a poem or the expression of a philosophical or political idea if you do not require them to write it down? How will you help them develop their ideas and communicate them to others if they don't learn to write? You don't always have the chance to make speeches, and usually a good speaker has also learned to write because that is how ideas are organized and developed.

You say that those who have difficulty putting their thoughts into words should not suffer, and that those who can write will always have the upper hand. But it isn't as easy as that. If I had been limited to yes/no answers and the kinds of subjects that can be tested by yes/no, I would certainly have suffered in my exam results and my future.

We aren't all the same and you can't produce an educational testing system that works if you try to pretend that they are. If you can't write, you have to learn (up to a certain level at least, even if you aren't James Joyce) just as I had to learn maths, chemistry, and physics up to a certain level. I spent a long time struggling with those subjects because they don't come naturally to me. Obviously I didn't specialize in those later, just took them through GCSE, just as someone who isn't strong in writing will probably not specialize in a subject that requires a lot of it.
Academics for those who are not academically inclined is a waste of time and money, and it would be better used teaching a skill that can be used in the work force.

When I tried college and yes I failed because the courses were above a level I am capable of, and when it came to tests writing essays, its simply not something I can do, nothing will change this, and its why I did not pass college and dropped out, had I been given the ability to learn a skill in high school, I would have been 100% better off.

Academics are not for everyone, nor is writing, yes we obviously need to know the very basics in math, reading etc, but what is the point to teach someone advanced math or physics when they cannot do it, and struggle which only causes stress and frustrations for the student?

I cannot stress how stressful high school was for me because I am not an academic learner, I spent more time studying and reading then most would, and still only managed to get by with a 2.0 GPA. No amount of time spent will allow me to learn something I have no ability to learn.

We are all different and educational system needs to be geared towards what will prepare people for the best future, not who can memorize or write about some poem written 400 years ago that serves no purpose.

Lion in Winter Jul 1st 2014 3:27 pm
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 11322118)
Academics for those who are not academically inclined is a waste of time and money, and it would be better used teaching a skill that can be used in the work force.

When I tried college and yes I failed because the courses were above a level I am capable of, and when it came to tests writing essays, its simply not something I can do, nothing will change this, and its why I did not pass college and dropped out, had I been given the ability to learn a skill in high school, I would have been 100% better off.

Academics are not for everyone, nor is writing, yes we obviously need to know the very basics in math, reading etc, but what is the point to teach someone advanced math or physics when they cannot do it, and struggle which only causes stress and frustrations for the student?

I cannot stress how stressful high school was for me because I am not an academic learner, I spent more time studying and reading then most would, and still only managed to get by with a 2.0 GPA. No amount of time spent will allow me to learn something I have no ability to learn.

We are all different and educational system needs to be geared towards what will prepare people for the best future, not who can memorize or write about some poem written 400 years ago that serves no purpose.
Well I think that's more or less what I was saying, except for the last bit. Literature and poetry most certainly do serve a purpose, from the very old all the way through the new. Multiple purposes actually.

But for the rest of it, my point was precisely that one size does not fit all, hence the multiple choice test not being suitable or helpful if that is all that is used. We all have different strengths, and just as I couldn't ever do higher level maths so you couldn't do higher level writing. There's room for all of us. And I agree that schools should prepare everyone for their own life - we all need options, not just fill-in-the-box tests. And we all need a basic level of competence in a general set of skills. It's not fair not to give kids that.

scrubbedexpat091 Jul 1st 2014 3:35 pm
Re: Schools in the USA
 
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 11322133)
Well I think that's more or less what I was saying, except for the last bit. Literature and poetry most certainly do serve a purpose, from the very old all the way through the new. Multiple purposes actually.

But for the rest of it, my point was precisely that one size does not fit all, hence the multiple choice test not being suitable or helpful if that is all that is used. We all have different strengths, and just as I couldn't ever do higher level maths so you couldn't do higher level writing. There's room for all of us. And I agree that schools should prepare everyone for their own life - we all need options, not just fill-in-the-box tests. And we all need a basic level of competence in a general set of skills. It's not fair not to give kids that.
You will have to fill me in on poetry and literature, I found it boring, and a waste of time.


All times are GMT -12. The time now is 8:36 am.
Page 4 of 7
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.