Question about VWP and being arrested
#1
Question about VWP and being arrested
I was planning to take my family to Florida next year but have read that if you have ever been arrested that you would not qualify under the VWP. According to the US embassy in London that is, yet the official question is:
"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?”
My situation was: I sold a car of mine, back in 1989 (I think) when I was about 20. The guy that bought it from me paid for it using a cheque from a stolen cheque book. The next day I went to the bank to cash it and the Police were called as the bank had been notified of the stolen cheque book.
Apparently it was a group of 3 to 4 men who had stolen it and had been going around trying to buy whatever they could and unfortunately I was one of their victims. Anyway I was asked at the bank, by the Police Officer what I was doing in possesion of the stolen cheque, I explained I had just sold my car and was given the cheque as payment. I was still arrested, as they assumed I could be one of the gang, so was taken to the station and put in a cell for about 2 hrs.
I was then taken out of the cell where I had to make a statement, give a description, etc.. and then allowed to go. I was also given details on how I could recover my car, as the Police had already arrested most of the gang and so had my car in a compound so I was able to collect it, all the way in Cornwall at this point.
Subsequently I have had to apply for a Police Check and that was all fine and I also have a letter from the Devon & Cornwall Police stating that they have nothing on the PNC computer about me, yet by the strictest letter of the law, If asked "Have you ever been arrested ?" I would have to say yes!
But the question says about "involving moral turpitude" which in my case surely I can say No, as I was completely innocent.
Can anyone offer advice? I think it would be pretty unfair that because of that incident that I would always have to go through getting a visa because I want to take my family to Disney Land.
"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?”
My situation was: I sold a car of mine, back in 1989 (I think) when I was about 20. The guy that bought it from me paid for it using a cheque from a stolen cheque book. The next day I went to the bank to cash it and the Police were called as the bank had been notified of the stolen cheque book.
Apparently it was a group of 3 to 4 men who had stolen it and had been going around trying to buy whatever they could and unfortunately I was one of their victims. Anyway I was asked at the bank, by the Police Officer what I was doing in possesion of the stolen cheque, I explained I had just sold my car and was given the cheque as payment. I was still arrested, as they assumed I could be one of the gang, so was taken to the station and put in a cell for about 2 hrs.
I was then taken out of the cell where I had to make a statement, give a description, etc.. and then allowed to go. I was also given details on how I could recover my car, as the Police had already arrested most of the gang and so had my car in a compound so I was able to collect it, all the way in Cornwall at this point.
Subsequently I have had to apply for a Police Check and that was all fine and I also have a letter from the Devon & Cornwall Police stating that they have nothing on the PNC computer about me, yet by the strictest letter of the law, If asked "Have you ever been arrested ?" I would have to say yes!
But the question says about "involving moral turpitude" which in my case surely I can say No, as I was completely innocent.
Can anyone offer advice? I think it would be pretty unfair that because of that incident that I would always have to go through getting a visa because I want to take my family to Disney Land.
Last edited by Phil-UK; Sep 24th 2007 at 11:28 am.
#2
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
If an officer specifically asks whether you've "ever" been arrested (with no other qualifying information), then you answer yes. However, for the purpose of the VWP, the question relates to "moral turpitude" or drugs... so if what you've said here is the truth, then no, you have not been arrested for these things - and you can safely apply for the VW.
Ian
Ian
#3
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
I believe that the crime you were arrested for may be considered one of moral turpitude under certain circumstances. It is one of those around which the precise facts could push it one way or the other. Therefore, the safe thing to do is to apply for the visa.
Your assertion that you can say 'no' as you were completely innocent of the crime is incorrect. It is not for you to make that decision.
You need to apply for the visa because that is the law, not because you want to take your family to Disneyland.
It may very well not be fair, but that's the way it is, unfortunately.
Your assertion that you can say 'no' as you were completely innocent of the crime is incorrect. It is not for you to make that decision.
You need to apply for the visa because that is the law, not because you want to take your family to Disneyland.
It may very well not be fair, but that's the way it is, unfortunately.
#4
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
What crime did I commit... selling my car?
If I had to apply for a visa I simply would not go! There's always Eurodisney. And as a search on any police records would not show anything, why would I answer yes?
Also, from the dictionary, moral turpitude means: Any base or vile conduct, contrary to accepted morals, that accompanies a crime.
Again, how is trying to cash a cheque for which you have been given as payment for something you legally sold make me fall into that category? Sorry Fatbrit but I disagree. If asked, have you ever been arrested, then I'd have to answer 'Yes', but if, as stated in the full question on the VWP, I would say 'No.'
If I had to apply for a visa I simply would not go! There's always Eurodisney. And as a search on any police records would not show anything, why would I answer yes?
Also, from the dictionary, moral turpitude means: Any base or vile conduct, contrary to accepted morals, that accompanies a crime.
Again, how is trying to cash a cheque for which you have been given as payment for something you legally sold make me fall into that category? Sorry Fatbrit but I disagree. If asked, have you ever been arrested, then I'd have to answer 'Yes', but if, as stated in the full question on the VWP, I would say 'No.'
Last edited by Phil-UK; Sep 24th 2007 at 3:10 pm.
#5
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
You can answer whatever you want on the VWP! I think the chances of them discovering it are pretty slim provided you put on your best poker face. And since you don't presumably have any intention of emigrating to the US, it probably won't queer your pitch.
If you were to naturalize as a US citizen, they ask you a really ridiculous question of whether you have ever committed any crime for which you were not arrested. How about that one for a catch all?
#6
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
Ian
#7
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
The question as to whether the offense you were arrested for is, is not so clear cut and, I believe, could be called either way.
#8
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
Yep -- those two together are the biggest pains on the N400. Even the innocent quake in their shoes.
#10
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
But it doesn't cure your specific problem, I'm afraid, about the VWP.
#11
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
Off the top of my head, one would hope the agent(s) who make the decisions on these applications would understand the difference between being arrested and not being charged.
The N400 has a space for explanation as follows:
Outcome or disposition of the arrest, citation, detention or charge (No charges filed, charges dismissed, jail, probation, etc.)
If you feel that is not sufficient, I would attach a brief explanation as in your first post and attach the letter from Devon & Cornwall Police stating that they have nothing on the PNC computer about you.
As mentioned previously, you can not lie, but you most certainly can state your case.
The N400 has a space for explanation as follows:
Outcome or disposition of the arrest, citation, detention or charge (No charges filed, charges dismissed, jail, probation, etc.)
If you feel that is not sufficient, I would attach a brief explanation as in your first post and attach the letter from Devon & Cornwall Police stating that they have nothing on the PNC computer about you.
As mentioned previously, you can not lie, but you most certainly can state your case.
#13
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
Off the top of my head, one would hope the agent(s) who make the decisions on these applications would understand the difference between being arrested and not being charged.
The N400 has a space for explanation as follows:
Outcome or disposition of the arrest, citation, detention or charge (No charges filed, charges dismissed, jail, probation, etc.)
If you feel that is not sufficient, I would attach a brief explanation as in your first post and attach the letter from Devon & Cornwall Police stating that they have nothing on the PNC computer about you.
As mentioned previously, you can not lie, but you most certainly can state your case.
The N400 has a space for explanation as follows:
Outcome or disposition of the arrest, citation, detention or charge (No charges filed, charges dismissed, jail, probation, etc.)
If you feel that is not sufficient, I would attach a brief explanation as in your first post and attach the letter from Devon & Cornwall Police stating that they have nothing on the PNC computer about you.
As mentioned previously, you can not lie, but you most certainly can state your case.
#14
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
The only query I have is whether the crime you describe is one involving moral turpitude - because that's what the question asks! If you were arrested for murder during an armed bank robbery there would be no question whatsoever, even if you were subsequently found totally innocent and a victim of mistaken identity.
The question as to whether the offense you were arrested for is, is not so clear cut and, I believe, could be called either way.
The question as to whether the offense you were arrested for is, is not so clear cut and, I believe, could be called either way.
I had no idea I had been given a stolen cheque when I went to the bank to pay it in, surely that must count for something?
I guess your right, probably best to just get a visa if I want to go. We have been entering the greencard lottery for a few years now so wouldn't want to jeopardise that in case our number ever came up.
Thanks for the responses tho guys.
#15
Re: Question about VWP and being arrested
I clearly understand the OP is not filing an N-400, but the principle of the matter remains the same and used the document as an example. I should have clarified. Arrested, but not charged and innocent, is not the same as a conviction. The OP's explanation and letter from the police would hopefully be sufficient.