markonline1

Sorry, I did mean the touch down zone. It may be company specific, but my understanding was if the aircraft is not fully established at 1000ft, a go around was to be initiated. Flaps down, VREF plus 5,10 (?), gear down and locked and on the glide slope. I also thought landings outside of the touchdown zone were forbidden so if you can’t get it down in the TDZ, again, it’s a go around. These are things I’ve picked up from online (yep, another armchair expert LOL). I don’t know if they are company specific, type specific, or even not specific?

Pulaski

The latest BlancoLerio video on PIA 8303 - some more good analysis on the approach to Karachi.


Looking at this, it is clear why the airspeed was so high - the pilot pretty much put the plane into a dive to reach an altitude where an attempt at landing was even possible, at one point the rate of descent was over 7,000ft per minute! Usually the rate of descent approaching an airport wouldn't exceed about 1,000 ft per minute.

The data now available shows that not only was the airspeed vary marginal for lowing the landing gear, but that the airspeed was too high for the flaps to fully deploy for landing.

I fear that the final minutes of PIA 8303 must have been pretty terrifying, and per Markonline above, this is indeed shaping up to be one of the most almighty ****-ups in Aviation history.

audio

Missing a bit of detail but this one is not bad.

sim

civilservant

I assume that Master Caution is the config warning? Kinda hard to miss... I haven't actually heard the ATC tapes yet, can it be audibly heard?

steveq

Yes, its in an early report form the link Pulaski posted.

Steve

Pulaski

Yeah, that is (tragically) hilarious as ATC is trying to point out to the pilot that he has a problem while the alarm is sounding in the background.

audio

The first 'chirp' is the A/P disconnect.
Overspeed warning, IAS is 205 and the config limit (flaps) is 185
GPWS, Master warning, overspeed etc.
The GA has the speedbrake extended, but this is just a simulation.
There was a whole lot going wrong here.

The pilot flying would most certainly fail his sim check ride and his job IMO.

You have to choose your airlines carefully

audio

And ATC should have told him to go around, I hope they were looking at the approach, it was in daylight I think.

Pulaski

I have long suspected as much!
I was wondering the same thing, and I appreciate your insight, because my thoughts, as an interested observer, were along the lines of "Why did WTC allow the plane to land based on the altitude and airspeed of the approach?"

audio

Wise, you will live longer that way.


Yes ATC has a lot to answer for here, but the hammer will or should fall on the captain first.

Steerpike

But based on what criteria?

Wasn't this a seasoned pilot? Sully was a seasoned guy and some say that's why he was able to land on the Hudson.

civilservant

I have a feeling it basically comes down to '1st world good - 3rd world bad'

Which is a little simplistic. Some highly experienced US pilots have made terrible decisions leading to crashes and death.

AF447 comes to mind (Air France, but still a 5* major airline) These pilots had the best aircraft, had tons of experience, but still crashed a perfectly good plane. Anyone can get into a bad situation that exceeds your ability to cope.

audio

Based on recent events.

If you mean experience, that has nothing to do with it. Seasoned pilots can be good or past their sell by.

Pulaski

I somewhat agree, but getting into trouble in extreme weather conditions is not quite the same as crashing a plane during an attempted daylight landing, in clear, good weather at an aiport that the pilot has previously landed at hundreds of times. I don't think a safe daylight landing in good weather at a very familiar airport is too much to expect.

markonline1

I wouldn’t blame ATC. I’m not gonna post anything on a public forum, let’s just say, not everywhere in the world has the same level of professionalism and standards as the U.K.
If everything is true that has been posted in the last few posts, and let’s be honest, it’s extremely difficult to come up with any other explanation, it absolutely beggars belief.
Right??!! Hate jumping to conclusions, but it’s beginning to look like Harrison Ford isn’t the worst pilot on the planet!!