Planespotting II

Old Sep 17th 2021, 8:37 pm
  #1636  
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
As long as people aren't getting sucked into the engines it's all good.
Nah the cone is there to protect the engine.

By the time we put the cone there the engine is off and spooled down sufficiently, there are times when you have to be close to the aircraft with an engine running, closest to an engine running for any ramp task, is an air start when APU is INOP, the hook up point is on the belly somewhere, its safe you wont get sucked into the running engine, its just a pain on the 737 and E175 close to the ground because if tall like me, only way to do it is lay on your back, A320 is easier as its taller, 757 is too tall so need a step ladder for most people.

Other than adding a few minutes of extra work air starts are not so bad.

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Old Sep 17th 2021, 9:14 pm
  #1637  
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Nah the cone is there to protect the engine.

By the time we put the cone there the engine is off and spooled down sufficiently, there are times when you have to be close to the aircraft with an engine running, closest to an engine running for any ramp task, is an air start when APU is INOP, the hook up point is on the belly somewhere, its safe you wont get sucked into the running engine, its just a pain on the 737 and E175 close to the ground because if tall like me, only way to do it is lay on your back, A320 is easier as its taller, 757 is too tall so need a step ladder for most people.

Other than adding a few minutes of extra work air starts are not so bad.

https://youtu.be/aiTsjf_BD24
Ha! I forget what aircraft it was, but as a line guy, there was an aircraft where the only way to unplug the GPU was to face the leading edge of the wing, and shuffle down sideways towards the fuselage keeping both hands on the wing, unplug the GPU then shuffle back out again. Failure to adhere to this technique would mean certain death as you were minced by the propellor. As I say, I forget what aircraft it was, but whenever one came in, if I saw a crew heading out to one and there was a GPU connected, I made sure I was in a hangar somewhere pretending to be busy LOL. Might have been the Mustangs, or something similar where the GPU port was directly under the engine, so again, had to make sure you entered and exited sideways.
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 10:04 pm
  #1638  
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Default Re: Planespotting II

I never had any aircraft quite that bad, although the 737-200 wasn't exactly fun, much lower to the ground than the current generation of 737's so even more of a pain in the ass than the NG's, never worked a MAX so don't how the MAX compares to the NG but I can't imagine its super different.

Only 2 aircraft from a ramp perspective that I truly hate is the CRJ anything and the 19 seaters from the 1990's, the 19 seaters had no proper cargo hold, is was a little closest in the cabin that locked, held about 25 bags max, often couldn't fit all the bags as the max weight would be exceed, back then 2 bags free to check, and these flights fed into the Northwest Airlines Manilla flights at LAX, 0 chance of getting all those boxes onto that plane, we would collect boxes for a week, put them on pallets and send them by truck to LAX where they would get loaded onto the Manilla flight, the passengers were told of this at check in, so they knew their boxes were not making the same flights they were.



Originally Posted by markonline1
Ha! I forget what aircraft it was, but as a line guy, there was an aircraft where the only way to unplug the GPU was to face the leading edge of the wing, and shuffle down sideways towards the fuselage keeping both hands on the wing, unplug the GPU then shuffle back out again. Failure to adhere to this technique would mean certain death as you were minced by the propellor. As I say, I forget what aircraft it was, but whenever one came in, if I saw a crew heading out to one and there was a GPU connected, I made sure I was in a hangar somewhere pretending to be busy LOL. Might have been the Mustangs, or something similar where the GPU port was directly under the engine, so again, had to make sure you entered and exited sideways.
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 10:20 pm
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Default Re: Planespotting II

I only had to get in a hold once. It was a chartered 737 of some sort (probably an 800). Once was one times too many LOL. The aircraft I hated were anything with Falcon in the name. Being French, they didn’t put too much effort into engineering which meant to get to the lav dump, you had to crawl under the belly of the plane to get to the hatch. It also meant if the chute had been charged, there was no escaping the river of poo when you opened the flap. I had a near miss once LOL. One of the many reasons I didn’t last too long as a line guy.
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 11:09 pm
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by markonline1
I only had to get in a hold once. It was a chartered 737 of some sort (probably an 800). Once was one times too many LOL. The aircraft I hated were anything with Falcon in the name. Being French, they didn’t put too much effort into engineering which meant to get to the lav dump, you had to crawl under the belly of the plane to get to the hatch. It also meant if the chute had been charged, there was no escaping the river of poo when you opened the flap. I had a near miss once LOL. One of the many reasons I didn’t last too long as a line guy.
Lavs suck in general... tends to at least everyone I worked go to the low person on the crew, once your not the newest person anymore, you probably never do one again unless by choice.

Boeing and Airbus have more or less made it idiot proof with their lavs, both put them in the aft, both made them easily accessible (although Airbus you do need a step stool but most lav trucks have one built in.) and there are 2 flaps, the main one that opens to connect and the smaller one that holds back the waste, just triple check the hose is connected before turning and pulling the handle for the small flap that lets the waste out, flush through 3-5 gallons of blue water to flush it out, close the little inside flap, fill with a couple gallons (varies by aircraft) blue juice and done, if your good at it, takes maybe 5 minutes, depends how much pee and poop people produced.

Upside to lav duty your prohibited from cleaning the cabin, touching anything in the galley, and can't do potable water, unless you have showered and changed into a clean uniform, which is only doable if you go home, although the few times I have seen someone get lav waste dumped on them, they would use the chemical washing station, then go home for a proper shower, and usually got the rest of the day off.

737 hold is less than ideal, its not very tall and in the 800/900 series also very long and really needs 3 people inside one at the door, one in the middle and one stacking, but airlines and ground handling companies still like to staff the 800/900 like its a 737-300-700 which have far shorter bins.

The only way to get bag from the door to the stacker is to throw the bag, simply no other way, but I could never throw a bag nearly as hard as the automated sorting system kicked the bags in the bag room, the kicker can make a 70 pound fly like its a feather and where most damage occurs, its the machines doing most of the damage these days, not the humans. (airport specific of course)

757 is pretty spacious inside though and there is one narrow body you will almost never run out of room or weight and that is a 757, its probably the best narrow body ever made from a ramp perspective.





E-175 has less than ideal cargo space, on a full flight in winter with 76 passengers can easily bulk out and leave bags behind.




The 2 photos above are mine, the 737 below is from google as I didn't have one for 737.



And what the aft looks like full of bags, also from google.





Some airlines not located in the US have cargo loading systems, but US airlines don't like them so much, they add weight and maintenance costs.



Some airlines and ground handling companies will buy these too for 737 use, the company who makes them tried to sell to the company I worked for, but they were too cheap to buy equipment that would make the job easier.


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Old Sep 18th 2021, 2:56 am
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Nah the cone is there to protect the engine.

By the time we put the cone there the engine is off and spooled down sufficiently, there are times when you have to be close to the aircraft with an engine running, closest to an engine running for any ramp task, is an air start when APU is INOP, the hook up point is on the belly somewhere, its safe you wont get sucked into the running engine, its just a pain on the 737 and E175 close to the ground because if tall like me, only way to do it is lay on your back, A320 is easier as its taller, 757 is too tall so need a step ladder for most people.

Other than adding a few minutes of extra work air starts are not so bad.

https://youtu.be/aiTsjf_BD24
Is an 'airstart' procedure the normal way for any aircraft engine to start, or only done under certain circumstances?
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 2:57 am
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
...

737 hold is less than ideal, its not very tall and in the 800/900 series also very long and really needs 3 people inside one at the door, one in the middle and one stacking, but airlines and ground handling companies still like to staff the 800/900 like its a 737-300-700 which have far shorter bins.

The only way to get bag from the door to the stacker is to throw the bag, simply no other way, but I could never throw a bag nearly as hard as the automated sorting system kicked the bags in the bag room, the kicker can make a 70 pound fly like its a feather and where most damage occurs, its the machines doing most of the damage these days, not the humans. (airport specific of course)

757 is pretty spacious inside though and there is one narrow body you will almost never run out of room or weight and that is a 757, its probably the best narrow body ever made from a ramp perspective.





E-175 has less than ideal cargo space, on a full flight in winter with 76 passengers can easily bulk out and leave bags behind.




The 2 photos above are mine, the 737 below is from google as I didn't have one for 737.



And what the aft looks like full of bags, also from google.





Some airlines not located in the US have cargo loading systems, but US airlines don't like them so much, they add weight and maintenance costs.



Some airlines and ground handling companies will buy these too for 737 use, the company who makes them tried to sell to the company I worked for, but they were too cheap to buy equipment that would make the job easier.

https://youtu.be/PPJu8ZXOnB0
Looking at these pictures, its a miracle my luggage has ever survived! Those bags are the bottom are under a lot of weight!
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 5:09 am
  #1643  
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Is an 'airstart' procedure the normal way for any aircraft engine to start, or only done under certain circumstances?
Pretty much only when the APU is in-op, there are other times when the APU is working and we still needed to do one, not sure what the issue there is, but that wasn't very common its always due to an INOP APU.

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Old Sep 18th 2021, 5:13 am
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Looking at these pictures, its a miracle my luggage has ever survived! Those bags are the bottom are under a lot of weight!

Most people do not realize what their bag goes through from the time it goes down at check in and comes back up at baggage claim, its a luggage theme park.

This will vary by airport, some don't have sophisticated sorting systems but most big ones do.



Sea Tac airport but the systems all run on the same basic concept. At the 2:25 mark not all airports have a staffed area for bags that can't scan. Vancouver Airport for instance, the bag room has to remember to go check that area for bags, sometimes they forget, things like that is usually how bags miss flights, its actually pretty rare for a bag never to be found, and those never found are often sitting in a warehouse somewhere because the tag fell off and the passenger didn't put any contact information inside the bag, always put a piece of paper inside the bag, both with your flight info, temporary address (hotel for example) as well as your permanent address or at the very least home phone/home cell, helps get your bag back to you if the outside tags fall off/get ripped off/damaged etc.


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Old Sep 18th 2021, 5:30 am
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Pretty much only when the APU is in-op, there are other times when the APU is working and we still needed to do one, not sure what the issue there is, but that wasn't very common its always due to an INOP APU.

https://youtu.be/xEDlMiFGleY
Thanks for the video ... now I know what an APU is! Always wondered what that little exhaust pipe was at the back of the plane!

So - sounds like the APU is a pretty important bit of gear - it not only starts the main engine, but it also runs the AC and lights / etc on the plane, prior to main engine start. So - when you say, 'due to an INOP APU' - wouldn't that be a big deal, and something that needs fixing right away? Wouldn't the pilot want to know WHY the APU was not working, before flying up in the air? Having said all that, since the APU uses a lot of fuel (according to the video) then using ground gear to start the engine instead does seem like a good approach!

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Old Sep 18th 2021, 6:27 am
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Default Re: Planespotting II

For most flights in US and Canada the flight can be dispatched without a working APU, hence the air start machine, sometimes its not working at all, other times it will work for power but not for starting an engine, but you need a maintenance person to get into those specifics.

Every aircraft has a list of items that are go or no go if not working and a minimum equipment list.

Red and blue lights at the end of the wing tip are a no go item, can't go with one inop, always fun to tell passengers its going to be a several hour delay while maintenance waits for a light bulb to arrive on a flight....luckily they don't seem to burn out very often.

The red flashing lights on the belly and top, heck even some panels can be missing like this. The potable water panel was missing, we though they forgot to close it in Minneapolis but no it had been deferred by maintenance the reason for the ice was because they did forget to completely close the water spigot thing, so it leaked potable water and it was winter and below freezing on the ground, so it never had the chance to melt and fall off before getting to the gate. But that ice is what happens with a slow water leak for a 4 hour flight.

We had an A320 come in with an entire skin panel missing off the cargo door, but it was deferred maintenance and not a cause for concern just looked serious.






Originally Posted by Steerpike
Thanks for the video ... now I know what an APU is! Always wondered what that little exhaust pipe was at the back of the plane!

So - sounds like the APU is a pretty important bit of gear - it not only starts the main engine, but it also runs the AC and lights / etc on the plane, prior to main engine start. So - when you say, 'due to an INOP APU' - wouldn't that be a big deal, and something that needs fixing right away? Wouldn't the pilot want to know WHY the APU was not working, before flying up in the air? Having said all that, since the APU uses a lot of fuel (according to the video) then using ground gear to start the engine instead does seem like a good approach!
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 2:19 pm
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Lavs suck in general... tends to at least everyone I worked go to the low person on the crew, once your not the newest person anymore, you probably never do one again unless by choice.

Boeing and Airbus have more or less made it idiot proof with their lavs, both put them in the aft, both made them easily accessible (although Airbus you do need a step stool but most lav trucks have one built in.) and there are 2 flaps, the main one that opens to connect and the smaller one that holds back the waste, just triple check the hose is connected before turning and pulling the handle for the small flap that lets the waste out, flush through 3-5 gallons of blue water to flush it out, close the little inside flap, fill with a couple gallons (varies by aircraft) blue juice and done, if your good at it, takes maybe 5 minutes, depends how much pee and poop people produced.

Upside to lav duty your prohibited from cleaning the cabin, touching anything in the galley, and can't do potable water, unless you have showered and changed into a clean uniform, which is only doable if you go home, although the few times I have seen someone get lav waste dumped on them, they would use the chemical washing station, then go home for a proper shower, and usually got the rest of the day off.

737 hold is less than ideal, its not very tall and in the 800/900 series also very long and really needs 3 people inside one at the door, one in the middle and one stacking, but airlines and ground handling companies still like to staff the 800/900 like its a 737-300-700 which have far shorter bins.

The only way to get bag from the door to the stacker is to throw the bag, simply no other way, but I could never throw a bag nearly as hard as the automated sorting system kicked the bags in the bag room, the kicker can make a 70 pound fly like its a feather and where most damage occurs, its the machines doing most of the damage these days, not the humans. (airport specific of course)

757 is pretty spacious inside though and there is one narrow body you will almost never run out of room or weight and that is a 757, its probably the best narrow body ever made from a ramp perspective.





E-175 has less than ideal cargo space, on a full flight in winter with 76 passengers can easily bulk out and leave bags behind.




The 2 photos above are mine, the 737 below is from google as I didn't have one for 737.



And what the aft looks like full of bags, also from google.





Some airlines not located in the US have cargo loading systems, but US airlines don't like them so much, they add weight and maintenance costs.



Some airlines and ground handling companies will buy these too for 737 use, the company who makes them tried to sell to the company I worked for, but they were too cheap to buy equipment that would make the job easier.


So what do the cats and dogs look like in there? How are they anchored, and are the animals all right next to each other? They must love that...
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 6:49 pm
  #1648  
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
So what do the cats and dogs look like in there? How are they anchored, and are the animals all right next to each other? They must love that...
In 737's in the forward cargo hold to the right of the door is a fairly small cargo area, but even the largest of kennels can fit and that is where live animals go typically, and any airline I ever dealt with in US/Canada with 737's put live animals in that location.

Cargo holds don't have unlimited capacity for living things, the airlines I dealt with, the maximum number of lives animals was 1-4 for a 737 depending on the size of the animal, so if a passenger books and has an adult great dane, that flight would not be available for anymore live animals in the hold.

Yes kennels and placed next to one another, just no way around that on most aircraft, we try to space them a bit the best we can or put a bag between them but its not always doable, we try are best to make animals as comfortable as we could.

Kennels will never have bags stacked on top of them, and we don't surround them with bags either, just sometimes a spacer bag, so lives animals wont end up behind a stack of bags or have bags piled on top of them.


On the 757 if I recall animals also go in the forward bin, but we got 757's so rarely, my memory is failing me.

On the Q-400 the only bin is aft and its just one big bin, so gets tricky.

The airlines we handled didn't carry lives animals on their A320's, CRJ regional jets, or E175's so it was basically just our 737 and Q400's that ever had live animals.

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Old Sep 18th 2021, 10:10 pm
  #1649  
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Default Re: Planespotting II

To answer some questions:

APU does not use much fuel.

The APU was a hug advantage for the A320 going down in the Hudson.

APU’s are sometimes banned at night due noise restrictions, therefore a ground start is used.

Never heard of blue wing tip lights, normally just red or green.
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 10:19 pm
  #1650  
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Default Re: Planespotting II

Originally Posted by audio
To answer some questions:

APU does not use much fuel.

The APU was a hug advantage for the A320 going down in the Hudson.

APU’s are sometimes banned at night due noise restrictions, therefore a ground start is used.

Never heard of blue wing tip lights, normally just red or green.

I meant green, I don't where blue came from....

Never worked anywhere that banned APU at night, interesting some airports would have such a rule, the damn air start is far from quiet and we started it up a good 10-15 minutes early to warm up to the operating temp it needed to be at, I personally find the air start more annoying noise wise than an APU, you can an air start a lot further away as well, interesting some airports think that is preferable, unless we just have really noisy ones in North America.



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