audio

On initial information, it would appear that pilot error was to blame.

Pulaski

For any plane made in the past 20+ years that is always a safe bet, unless the plane is hit by a missile.

audio

No excuse IMHO for a crash caused by weather, i.e. visibility, crosswind or runway contamination. There are exceptions I think, with unexpected severe wind shear/microburst activity.

markonline1

14 dead now including both pilots. There have been a lot of runway excursions recently! Not familiar with that airport, but looking at that runway, it’s crying out for an EMAS. We had the same issue. A big drop at the end of our runway, if anything overshot, it was certain death. The FAA, which has always been way behind ICAO standards, finally mandated safety areas at runway ends. We couldn’t meet the criteria, hence the installation of EMAS beds. As you can see, it’s a long way down!!!!

scrubbedexpat091

Quite the cliff.

San Diego has EMAS bed at the west end of their runway, the east end does not though, but no cliff at either end. West end if you got through the EMAS is a fence, ILS stuff, then water. The east end, aircraft would face a blast fence, parking lot, major road, and then a building, EMAS isn't possible at the east end from what I understand.

Steerpike

Well I learned something in this article!

""The humidity in California is much lower than in Australia, so it’s much better for long-term storage of aircraft – the same reason why we’ve moved our A380s there. All of the aircraft will be looked after by our Los Angeles-based engineering team.""

I assumed the humidity in the inland desert areas of Australia would be very much like the inland desert in California (Note - this applies only to the inland desert areas of CA, such as Mojave; coastal CA is 'moderately humid').

Could it be that there's plenty of dry spots in Australia, but there are no active storage areas for planes in those locations, unlike in CA (and AZ) which have vast storage spaces dedicated to airplane storage? I did drive through Victorville a few times and it's quite amazing to see all the aircraft there! And that was 10 years ago, before the current situation! Maybe it's time for me to drive through Victorville again (it's a rather crappy area ...).

Steerpike

Good in times of flood though!

Jerseygirl

a few years ago there was one at Toronto Pearson...it didn’t end too badly if I recall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_358

Steerpike

You need to help out us less educated folks
https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets...m?newsId=13754

Fact Sheet – Engineered Material Arresting System (EMAS)

audio

I’ve only seen them at military bases in Europe, shouldn’t normally be necessary if you hit the right area at the right speed and the brakes/drag chute are serviceable.

Steerpike

If, indeed!

markonline1

Sorry. I didn’t want to make a boring post even more boring by adding a load of detail LOL. You’ve obviously read the fact sheet. Blocks of crushable concrete. Weird stuff, each block is as light as a feather and when you stand on them you can feel a slight spring. Anyway, runway length and aircraft types are calculated to build a bed of these blocks that crush and bring the aircraft to a safe stop whilst causing minimal, if any damage to the aircraft. Southwest went into the EMAS at Burbank last year. The pax on board weren’t even aware anything had happened. The NTSB didn’t even bother putting their coffee’s down, let alone attend, so it’s good stuff.
Europe has followed the ICAO standard of a runway end safety area, basically level and load bearing ground to support an aircraft in a runoff. The FAA has only recently introduced this safety area, and a lot of airports, such is ours just weren’t able to accommodate a safety area, hence an EMAS. There’s 60 odd dotted around the US.

scrubbedexpat091

Certainly an improvement over 2000 incident in Burbank

markonline1

Yep, Midway was another one, although the proximity to the gas station at the Burbank incident is scary.


I also can’t help but notice these all seem to be the same airline LOL.

caretaker

Wasn't there another one somewhere in Canada where the airliner clipped the light array at the end of the runway on approach, and they made it down, but there were chunks of steel stuck in the front end?