OT: Rudeness?
Jul 31st 2002, 8:24 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:38:24 -0400, "Katrina Cheng"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>So many people complain nowadays because 'the big bad world isnt doing everything
>their way'. Thats life with so many people from so many places. Learn and adapt,
>thats the great thing about the human species.
>
>*gets off the soapbox*
That's what *they* should be doing--"learn and adapt" yet do many come here and
expect *us* to bend to their whims.
They came here, remember?
<[email protected]> wrote:
>So many people complain nowadays because 'the big bad world isnt doing everything
>their way'. Thats life with so many people from so many places. Learn and adapt,
>thats the great thing about the human species.
>
>*gets off the soapbox*
That's what *they* should be doing--"learn and adapt" yet do many come here and
expect *us* to bend to their whims.
They came here, remember?
Jul 31st 2002, 8:24 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
On 31 Jul 2002 08:55:04 -0700, [email protected] (Des) wrote:
>> It seems that some foreigners always whine about learning English but, bless their
>> hypocritical little souls, they get upset at Americans who go to the foreigners'
>> country and don't try to speak the native language or abide by their customs,
>> *they* think the American is rude.
>
>Your thought processes are immersed in stereotypes that certainly do not apply to
>all foreigners.
It seems you can't read. I wrote *some*-not all--*some*. I have actually been around
this before and have heard the argument before.
Not stereotypes, I saw it happen.
>> It seems that some foreigners always whine about learning English but, bless their
>> hypocritical little souls, they get upset at Americans who go to the foreigners'
>> country and don't try to speak the native language or abide by their customs,
>> *they* think the American is rude.
>
>Your thought processes are immersed in stereotypes that certainly do not apply to
>all foreigners.
It seems you can't read. I wrote *some*-not all--*some*. I have actually been around
this before and have heard the argument before.
Not stereotypes, I saw it happen.
Jul 31st 2002, 8:24 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
Skits O'Phrennia wrote:
>
> "mrtravel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Her MIL had been in the US and knew spoke the language poorly. So, it isn't like
> > she didn't try to learn. However, the older you get, the harder it becomes.
>
> Then he is rude for not saying something to his wife. "I'm sorry Honey, you know
> mom has a hard time with english" is not a hard thing to to say or take up a lot of
> time. I bet that would make her feel a whole lot better.
Why is he rude for not telling his wife this. She already knows his mom has a hard
time with English.
>
> "mrtravel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Her MIL had been in the US and knew spoke the language poorly. So, it isn't like
> > she didn't try to learn. However, the older you get, the harder it becomes.
>
> Then he is rude for not saying something to his wife. "I'm sorry Honey, you know
> mom has a hard time with english" is not a hard thing to to say or take up a lot of
> time. I bet that would make her feel a whole lot better.
Why is he rude for not telling his wife this. She already knows his mom has a hard
time with English.
Jul 31st 2002, 8:24 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
"mrtravel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is he rude for not telling his wife this. She already knows his mom has a hard
> time with English.
And right there sir is what has gone wrong with society today. You bump into someone
and you don't say "excuse me" because you assume that they know you're thinking it?
Don't you think the polite thing to do would be to tell her each time and every time?
Are we all that callous that we can't be nice to each other anymore? Skits
TESTTESTTEST--== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==TESTTESTTEST-
TEST--= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =TEST--
news:[email protected]...
> Why is he rude for not telling his wife this. She already knows his mom has a hard
> time with English.
And right there sir is what has gone wrong with society today. You bump into someone
and you don't say "excuse me" because you assume that they know you're thinking it?
Don't you think the polite thing to do would be to tell her each time and every time?
Are we all that callous that we can't be nice to each other anymore? Skits
TESTTESTTEST--== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==TESTTESTTEST-
TEST--= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =TEST--
Jul 31st 2002, 8:24 pm
#35
Banned
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,933
Re: OT: Rudeness?
The problem here is not that they are conversing in a language she does not understand, but the fact the original poster is feeling left out. This is something that needs to be discussed between husband and wife. And the husband needs to make a conscious effort to see that his wife doesn't feel left out.
Just sit him down my dear, and tell him how you feel. If I had communicated my feelings to my husband in this way, concerning his family, I know he would go out of his way to see I did not feel that way. And if he had done anything to make me feel like an outsider, he would have only done so, not realising it.
I really don't see a problem here, except a lack of communication between two married people.
Ranjini
Just sit him down my dear, and tell him how you feel. If I had communicated my feelings to my husband in this way, concerning his family, I know he would go out of his way to see I did not feel that way. And if he had done anything to make me feel like an outsider, he would have only done so, not realising it.
I really don't see a problem here, except a lack of communication between two married people.
Ranjini
Jul 31st 2002, 9:11 pm
#36
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 132
A Frenchman commenting on American rudeness....now isn't THAT precious......
Jul 31st 2002, 10:56 pm
#37
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 33
Re: OT: Rudeness?
Is there a regular forum for this type of discussion? so much more interesting than all the questions about forms..lol and while things like rude mother in laws are not a new problem or only a problem for couples in this group it does help to talk to others that have that extra problem of having a spouse from another country, even for those of us who technically have an english speaking spouse. I would be interested in it if there was.....
Aug 1st 2002, 12:21 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
Ok....
I think it's rude to expect your husband to speak with his mother in something other
than their native tongue if thats what they wish to do. It's one thing for someone to
come to America and not learn english at all, and expect people OTHER THAN THEIR
FAMILY to talk in their native tongue, for ex. people at the grocery store, etc.
However, in this case, the mother in law DID learn a bit of english, it's not GREAT,
but it's enough that she can order a pizza.
She should NOT be expected to speak to her son in English in the privacy of their own
homes, by saying that you might as well tell them they should renounce their old
country, customs and traditions. It IS a free country after all, they should be
allowed to speak in whatever language they choose to.
Try to think of from his perpective... lets say you moved to Mexico, and he didn't
know English at all. When calling home to your parents, who hardly know any Spanish,
you would speak in ENGLISH, right?? And, wouldn't you be insanely insulted if your
husband told you he doesn't want you to continue speaking in english to your family,
because then he doesn't know what you're saying???
I think the problem here is that, like Rete and some others have said, you feel like
you should be entitled to know what they are talking about, because if you don't know
everything, then his mother seems in a higher position than you are, like she holds
some sort of power over you.
I honestly think that they have NO IDEA you feel left out, I mean, do you always get
off the phone and tell your husband everything that you just spoke about with
someone? Not likely. I would suggest, TALK to your husband.. tell him that you don't
care if he talks to his mother in spanish, but you feel a little left out and you
would appriciate it if he tried to include you just a little in the conversation: ex.
saying "Hi" to the mother-in-law for you, and telling you any special news/family
happenings that they may have talked about or something.
If it's curiosity that is getting the best of you, wanting to know what they are
talking about, then thats NOT their problem: it's yours. They have every right to
speak in spanish to each other, and they ALSO HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO PRIVACY between a
mother and son. Not that he's got something to hide from you, but jeez, do you tell
your husband everything that you talk about with YOUR mother???
If you just HAVE to know what they're talking about, learn Spanish. But if you're
doing it to invade their privacy, you're doing it for the wrong reasons... but, I
think it would actually help the situation if you tried to learn a little spanish so
you can better converse with his mother, so you can build a better relationship with
her. Just the fact that you express a desire to learn Spanish might bring you and his
mother closer together.
I think it's rude to expect your husband to speak with his mother in something other
than their native tongue if thats what they wish to do. It's one thing for someone to
come to America and not learn english at all, and expect people OTHER THAN THEIR
FAMILY to talk in their native tongue, for ex. people at the grocery store, etc.
However, in this case, the mother in law DID learn a bit of english, it's not GREAT,
but it's enough that she can order a pizza.
She should NOT be expected to speak to her son in English in the privacy of their own
homes, by saying that you might as well tell them they should renounce their old
country, customs and traditions. It IS a free country after all, they should be
allowed to speak in whatever language they choose to.
Try to think of from his perpective... lets say you moved to Mexico, and he didn't
know English at all. When calling home to your parents, who hardly know any Spanish,
you would speak in ENGLISH, right?? And, wouldn't you be insanely insulted if your
husband told you he doesn't want you to continue speaking in english to your family,
because then he doesn't know what you're saying???
I think the problem here is that, like Rete and some others have said, you feel like
you should be entitled to know what they are talking about, because if you don't know
everything, then his mother seems in a higher position than you are, like she holds
some sort of power over you.
I honestly think that they have NO IDEA you feel left out, I mean, do you always get
off the phone and tell your husband everything that you just spoke about with
someone? Not likely. I would suggest, TALK to your husband.. tell him that you don't
care if he talks to his mother in spanish, but you feel a little left out and you
would appriciate it if he tried to include you just a little in the conversation: ex.
saying "Hi" to the mother-in-law for you, and telling you any special news/family
happenings that they may have talked about or something.
If it's curiosity that is getting the best of you, wanting to know what they are
talking about, then thats NOT their problem: it's yours. They have every right to
speak in spanish to each other, and they ALSO HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO PRIVACY between a
mother and son. Not that he's got something to hide from you, but jeez, do you tell
your husband everything that you talk about with YOUR mother???
If you just HAVE to know what they're talking about, learn Spanish. But if you're
doing it to invade their privacy, you're doing it for the wrong reasons... but, I
think it would actually help the situation if you tried to learn a little spanish so
you can better converse with his mother, so you can build a better relationship with
her. Just the fact that you express a desire to learn Spanish might bring you and his
mother closer together.
Aug 1st 2002, 1:20 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
This right here is the problem:
>I find it just plain rude. When he hangs up
> > the phone with her he says nothing. Usually when I am on the phone with anyone,
> > I'll say something when I hang up, like "oh...so and so said hello"
The husband is not aware of the proper telephone etiquette. If she makes him aware
and he still continues the same way then there really is a problem. Maybe this is
what the wife is sensing that caused her to start this whole discussion. I hope not.
But she needs to talk to him.
>I find it just plain rude. When he hangs up
> > the phone with her he says nothing. Usually when I am on the phone with anyone,
> > I'll say something when I hang up, like "oh...so and so said hello"
The husband is not aware of the proper telephone etiquette. If she makes him aware
and he still continues the same way then there really is a problem. Maybe this is
what the wife is sensing that caused her to start this whole discussion. I hope not.
But she needs to talk to him.
Aug 1st 2002, 1:20 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
And *she* chose to marry into it - If she expects *them* to learn her language the
maybe *she* should take steps to meet in the middle
We are talking about a *family* here - not making the whole country talk Swahili
(sorry for the spelling)
Greg wrote:
> That's what *they* should be doing--"learn and adapt" yet do many come here and
> expect *us* to bend to their whims.
>
> They came here, remember?
maybe *she* should take steps to meet in the middle
We are talking about a *family* here - not making the whole country talk Swahili
(sorry for the spelling)
Greg wrote:
> That's what *they* should be doing--"learn and adapt" yet do many come here and
> expect *us* to bend to their whims.
>
> They came here, remember?
Aug 1st 2002, 1:20 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
I agree that you should know enough of the dominant language in the country that
you are living to get by. Being fluent in it is even better. But you shouldnt have
to give up any other languages in public because the person at the next table cant
listen in on your conversations. It comes down to what language can the people
directly involved in the conversation understand best. Why should they have to
adapt to english if the person they are talking to can speak some other language
with more ease?
That said, its just as easy for the english speaker to learn some other language as
for that person to learn english. Like its been said before, for a lot of people
learning an additional language is very hard. Thats something everyone can
understand. The older you get the harder it is. If you arent willing to meet someone
(especially in your own family now) halfway thats being pretty stuck up. Why should
they try anyways if you wont?
Do you know why some people even come to the US? Some dont want to be citizens,
they just dont want to be persecuted in their home countries. They want to live a
safe life. I dont think they should have to give up who they are to be over here.
Some of us come here to be with loved ones (especially true for those on this
board). Im not going to bend over backwards to please the stranger on the street
that doesnt like how I talk but Im also not expecting them to change how they talk
just for me. I will _adapt_ to my current locale, that doesnt mean I will give up
anything from my past.
>
> That's what *they* should be doing--"learn and adapt" yet do many come here and
> expect *us* to bend to their whims.
>
> They came here, remember?
you are living to get by. Being fluent in it is even better. But you shouldnt have
to give up any other languages in public because the person at the next table cant
listen in on your conversations. It comes down to what language can the people
directly involved in the conversation understand best. Why should they have to
adapt to english if the person they are talking to can speak some other language
with more ease?
That said, its just as easy for the english speaker to learn some other language as
for that person to learn english. Like its been said before, for a lot of people
learning an additional language is very hard. Thats something everyone can
understand. The older you get the harder it is. If you arent willing to meet someone
(especially in your own family now) halfway thats being pretty stuck up. Why should
they try anyways if you wont?
Do you know why some people even come to the US? Some dont want to be citizens,
they just dont want to be persecuted in their home countries. They want to live a
safe life. I dont think they should have to give up who they are to be over here.
Some of us come here to be with loved ones (especially true for those on this
board). Im not going to bend over backwards to please the stranger on the street
that doesnt like how I talk but Im also not expecting them to change how they talk
just for me. I will _adapt_ to my current locale, that doesnt mean I will give up
anything from my past.
>
> That's what *they* should be doing--"learn and adapt" yet do many come here and
> expect *us* to bend to their whims.
>
> They came here, remember?
Aug 1st 2002, 2:20 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
"Skits O'Phrennia" <Skits_Ophrennia()@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "mrtravel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > 3. If this bothers you, learn the other language. FWIW, it bothers me.
>
> Don't matter. It's still just plain rude. Although my fiancée is Canadian I'm
> still exposed to it in the workplace and around town and it's just plain rude. She
> is not being overly sensitive in the least. When 3 people speak the same language
> and 2 start using a second language that the third person does not know they are,
> in effect, excluding the 3rd party. It's the height of rudeness.
If persons one and two want to speak about what a colossal jerk person number three
is, shifting to another language could be seen as rather polite.
English is the official language of the United States and if
> Immigrants choose not to learn it they open them selves to hardships and more
> expense for everyone else. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I don't mean to. Skits
And when was English declared the official language of the United States? Did the
legislation cover mother-son communications? Too bad your fiancee won't be able to
speak Canadian here
>
>
>
>
> TESTTESTTEST--== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==TESTTESTTEST-
> TEST--= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =TEST--
news:<[email protected]>...
> "mrtravel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > 3. If this bothers you, learn the other language. FWIW, it bothers me.
>
> Don't matter. It's still just plain rude. Although my fiancée is Canadian I'm
> still exposed to it in the workplace and around town and it's just plain rude. She
> is not being overly sensitive in the least. When 3 people speak the same language
> and 2 start using a second language that the third person does not know they are,
> in effect, excluding the 3rd party. It's the height of rudeness.
If persons one and two want to speak about what a colossal jerk person number three
is, shifting to another language could be seen as rather polite.
English is the official language of the United States and if
> Immigrants choose not to learn it they open them selves to hardships and more
> expense for everyone else. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I don't mean to. Skits
And when was English declared the official language of the United States? Did the
legislation cover mother-son communications? Too bad your fiancee won't be able to
speak Canadian here
>
>
>
>
> TESTTESTTEST--== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==TESTTESTTEST-
> TEST--= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =TEST--
Aug 1st 2002, 2:20 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
Sorry for getting so far away from the original topic. It just really irked me and my
little mouthy self had to add my 1.32 cents. That was my two cents, but the exchange
rate makes it less then it started off as.
little mouthy self had to add my 1.32 cents. That was my two cents, but the exchange
rate makes it less then it started off as.
Aug 1st 2002, 2:58 am
#44
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 48
Re: OT: Rudeness?
After reading those comments i personnally beleive that this is not the rudness or the stuff like that. As the orignal poster expects the husband to speak in english. In some socities mother has higher position. I guess even if it is husband or wife's mother. Just always remeber if u are a mother what would u love to do. Talk to your son in english(as that will be his mother tongue). Every immigrant who comes to america has his own memories and for those who will say like than why they come here, i will say please don't read it or take it on you as this reply is not meant for you.
My suggestion and question is why don;t the orignal poster try to learn the husband's language. It is sometimes helpful. If you try to learn their language and call your mother in law in her native language, she will definitely feel closer and ask about you and talk to you every day either in english or spanish.
For some enhlitenment the languages in USA are :
Congress had never even considered declaring English the nation's official language until 1981, when a constitutional English Language Amendment was introduced by the late Senator S. I. Hayakawa. The only previous official-language legislation dates back to 1923: a bill designating "American" the national tongue.
Notwithstanding a persistent legend that German missed becoming our official language by a single vote, American English has never been in jeopardy. In 1795, the 3rd Congress did consider and reject a petition by German Americans in Virginia to translate all federal laws into their language.
The language-minority population was larger at the turn of the 20th century, when immigration reached its highest levels in U.S. history, than at the turn of the 21st. In the 1890 census, there were 4.5 times as many non-English speakers than in the 1990 census (with its superior capabilities for counting such groups). In 1910, 23 percent of foreign-born whites, 39 percent of Japanese, 41 percent of Chinese, and 66 percent of other immigrants spoke no English, as compared with less than 10 percent of foreign-born residents in 1990.
United States of America. National or official languages: English (in Hawaii), Hawaiian (in Hawaii), Spanish (in New Mexico). (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=USA)
The number of languages listed for USA is 231. Of those, 176 are living languages, 3 are second languages without mother tongue speakers, and 52 are extinct. Diversity index 0.35.
Go to this link and read the statics of languages diversity in US,
http://www.ethnicharvest.org/regions/50languages.html
According to law official language doesnot apply on the private communication of two persons if it is not a public office.
For those who speak for immigrants to learn English, i agree with them to the point that for communicating with English speaking person or public/official matter.so please be american and let hate not govern this nation.
coming back to the orignal posters message i will suggest her to try learn little spanish other wise don;t let the mom son talk to bother her
thanks
aman
My suggestion and question is why don;t the orignal poster try to learn the husband's language. It is sometimes helpful. If you try to learn their language and call your mother in law in her native language, she will definitely feel closer and ask about you and talk to you every day either in english or spanish.
For some enhlitenment the languages in USA are :
Congress had never even considered declaring English the nation's official language until 1981, when a constitutional English Language Amendment was introduced by the late Senator S. I. Hayakawa. The only previous official-language legislation dates back to 1923: a bill designating "American" the national tongue.
Notwithstanding a persistent legend that German missed becoming our official language by a single vote, American English has never been in jeopardy. In 1795, the 3rd Congress did consider and reject a petition by German Americans in Virginia to translate all federal laws into their language.
The language-minority population was larger at the turn of the 20th century, when immigration reached its highest levels in U.S. history, than at the turn of the 21st. In the 1890 census, there were 4.5 times as many non-English speakers than in the 1990 census (with its superior capabilities for counting such groups). In 1910, 23 percent of foreign-born whites, 39 percent of Japanese, 41 percent of Chinese, and 66 percent of other immigrants spoke no English, as compared with less than 10 percent of foreign-born residents in 1990.
United States of America. National or official languages: English (in Hawaii), Hawaiian (in Hawaii), Spanish (in New Mexico). (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=USA)
The number of languages listed for USA is 231. Of those, 176 are living languages, 3 are second languages without mother tongue speakers, and 52 are extinct. Diversity index 0.35.
Go to this link and read the statics of languages diversity in US,
http://www.ethnicharvest.org/regions/50languages.html
According to law official language doesnot apply on the private communication of two persons if it is not a public office.
For those who speak for immigrants to learn English, i agree with them to the point that for communicating with English speaking person or public/official matter.so please be american and let hate not govern this nation.
coming back to the orignal posters message i will suggest her to try learn little spanish other wise don;t let the mom son talk to bother her
thanks
aman
Aug 1st 2002, 4:21 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Rudeness?
"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And when was English declared the official language of the United States? Did the
> legislation cover mother-son communications? Too bad your fiancee won't be able to
> speak Canadian here
You're stretching. You need a life
TESTTESTTEST--== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==TESTTESTTEST-
TEST--= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =TEST--
news:[email protected]...
> And when was English declared the official language of the United States? Did the
> legislation cover mother-son communications? Too bad your fiancee won't be able to
> speak Canadian here
You're stretching. You need a life
TESTTESTTEST--== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==TESTTESTTEST-
TEST--= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =TEST--
