SecretGarden

Hi all,
While watching the presidential debate on television last night, we saw a commercial for a show on immigration issues that will appear on CNN this coming Sunday night at 8 p.m. Eastern time.

From the commercial, it made it seem that the primary focus would be illegal immigration into the US from Mexico, but it might be interesting to see if they portray the process accurately, if at all.

We'll be watching and would love to hear your thoughts after the program, although perhaps the thread should then be moved to the BE "Take It Outside" forum?

Happy viewing!
~SecretGarden
~and Mr. Pink

Buendia

Thanks!

These things are always of interest... and it does seem that they usually get the process wrong...

Here in New Mexico, a large percentage of the people going through immigration with us (at the biometrics place, service center, at the immigration attorney's office we visited) are from Mexico - so Mexican immigration - legal and otherwise - is interesting, too... and as a proud bleeding-heart liberal, I'll keep my opinions on that to myself

Will be interested to see the program and hear everyone's opinions!

Hypertweeky

If I don't forget I will watch it!, Can you send me a PM reminder?

Susie

I don't even have the patience to write all that I felt after watching that CNN show. All I can say is that if USCIS denies ANYONE that is doing this the legal way with all the legal paperwork and bullsh*t beauracracy they have to put up with, then the entire immigration process is a joke.

With that said, at least, after all the headache and heartache we go through, we will have a greencard!

Buendia

The thing I have thought for a long time is this: our immigration system encourages people to enter the country illegally, partly because the legal route is so cumbersome, confusing, slow and, often, punitive. (And this show confirmed that illegal immigration is tolerated). But entering illegally is a gamble, a big risk, with some big consequences. And I'd say that almost all of the members of this newsgroup are not gamblers. So we went through legal channels, often suffering for it, but able to sleep at night.

Here's the thing I think, and I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for it: I don't think it ought to be more difficult to come into the country illegally and I don't think people ought to be sought out and punished/deported/jailed. Rather than this "stick" approach, I think that the government ought to use the "carrot" and funnel funds into streamlining the legal system so that it's faster, easier, transparent. I think that would encourage people to enter legally (and they wouldn't be under the radar), rewarding people for doing things the right way...

... of course we did things the right way, and we'd like to be rewarded

Just my thoughts... (can't even comment on the scary guy with the Korean wife... have many thoughts too about DA's "my country" attitudes his anger at the use of Spanish and the "invading culture" idea which just made my blood boil, living in a state in the US where Spanish is the FIRST language and Spanish culture has been here since the 1600s, long before the Anglo "invasion" that came with the railroad in the late 1800s).

Rete

I find your post more provocative than the show itself but cannot reply at the moment.

The show was a mealy mouth edition of the same type and nature that has been boadcasted by other stations over the last several years. As the young Mexico mother here illegally, who drives a new car, lives in a private house, has thousands of dollars to pay someone for fake papers for the two children she left behind and who after two years does not have the rudiments of the language of the country she wants to call home and bring her children to illegally, I am not a criminal.

Susie

I also want to clarify, I don't think people that have been here and are trying to better their and their families lives should be jailed or necessarily deported. What I do believe is that, if they are turning such a blind eye the way they are, then those of us shelling out the fees and suffering through the legal way should have some sort of reward for doing it properly, such as efficient and timely processing etc.

sphyrapicus

It will air again on the 23rd at

6 a.m., 8 p.m., 11 p.m. Eastern

Capt. Tuttle

Susie wrote:

    >>I don't even have the patience to write all that I felt after watching
    >>that CNN show. All I can say is that if USCIS denies ANYONE that is
    >>doing this the legal way with all the legal paperwork and bullsh*t
    >>beauracracy they have to put up with, then the entire immigration
    >>process is a joke.
    >>With that said, at least, after all the headache and heartache we go
    >>through, we will have a greencard!
    >>
    >I also want to clarify, I don't think people that have been here and are
    >trying to better their and their families lives should be jailed or
    >necessarily deported. What I do believe is that, if they are turning
    >such a blind eye the way they are, then those of us shelling out the
    >fees and suffering through the legal way should have some sort of reward
    >for doing it properly, such as efficient and timely processing etc.
    >
Why doesn't everyone here write a short letter to their congressman or
woman? I think in the end we all want efficient and timely processing
and we aren't getting it!!
It doesn't matter if you sent your applications in yesterday or two
years ago you can still write and complain about the time this all
takes. Who knows? It might make a difference.

cindyabs

At the risk of an international incident, , I am one of those stick in the muds who feels that regardless of what it was formerly lingustically , what it is now is the consideration. English is the language of the government, and the "first" language of the education system. Growing up as I did, near the Quebec border, many of my classmates never spoke English until they attended school. They soldiered on and were assimilated, no special provisions made for them. They also had a heritage in Quebec which was over 300 years in length.
Now, on the other hand, Americans have a deplorable lack of linguistic skills as a whole compared to the rest of the educated world. Whereas in Europe the kids are taught English in 4th grade, we don't have a similar program here and that is a shame on us.
I do feel that one should bloom where they are planted-if you move to France, you better learn French, if you move to Israel you'd better learn Hebrew and so on.
"Course if we were totally and fairly pc, we would be speaking Navaho, or Cherokee, or Abenaki etc..............

inquisitive40

DITTO... when in Rome do what the Roman's do,,, i.e. why should the US be bending over backwards to facilitate immigrants who don't even want to learn the language.

Patrick

Andrew DeFaria

cindyabs wrote:

    > Now, on the other hand, Americans have a deplorable lack of linguistic
    > skills as a whole compared to the rest of the educated world. Whereas
    > in Europe the kids are taught English in 4th grade, we don't have a
    > similar program here and that is a shame on us.

Why are kids in Europe taught English in the 4th grade? Answer: Because
English is the language of international business, etc. IOW because it
is desirable not simply because Americans/Brits speak it rather because
it is popular and because you'd do well to have knowledge of it. As such
we Americans (and Brits) have an advantage because that happens to be
our native language. So why would you expect us to be teaching another
language to 4th graders? And if so which language do you think we should
teach? Spanish? German?

    > I do feel that one should bloom where they are planted-if you move to
    > France, you better learn French, if you move to Israel you'd better
    > learn Hebrew and so on.

Exactly. I do not suspect that if I were to move say to Brasil, that
they would suddenly be employing English speaking teachers and handing
out voter information in Portuguese and English.

    > "Course if we were totally and fairly pc, we would be speaking Navaho,
    > or Cherokee, or Abenaki etc..............

If you go back far enough we'd all be grunting! (And some of us still
do! :-) )
--
Bad command. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaay..

Buendia

I completely understand what you're saying, but I think that, at least here in the Southwest, Spanish is incredibly important both culturally and in terms of business. The culture here is unique, and though I wasn't born here, I've assimilated; I understand that it's not like where I came from, and I've done my best to fit in. Part of that is speaking Spanish, part of it is respecting local traditions (including building traditions - I'm an architect). And it's very much a current thing, not just in the past.

I just crossed a state border to live here, rather than an international border. But I'd say that within the US, there are regions that are very different from one another. (You wouldn't mistake New Mexico for Vermont!). And the laws vary, too. I have adopted this state as my home, and consider myself a New Mexican.

I guess what I was trying to say is that in singling out that one immigrant group (Mexican, Spanish-speaking), the man in the program, D.A., is assuming that there is a sort of homogenous "American" culture that they don't fit into. There are Mexican immigrants here in New Mexico as well, and perhaps they fit in better here because of the advantage here of being bilingual (and most of the Mexican immigrants I've known are bilingual v. the Americans I know who often speak only English). My husband and I were wondering if D.A. would fell that he was a more "desirable" immigrant just because he happens to be from a country that speaks English.

(Hope I'm not perpetuating a difficult discussion... definitely don't mean to offend anyone and I know that most people don't feel like I do... ah well... thank you to the First Amendment!!!)

meauxna

Oh, Bd, you *know* the answer to that (rhetorical, I hope) question: Yes.

That fellow made the comment a couple of times about being "saved "from the Third World". But the illegal Canadians, Brits and Australians, as well as many others w/out brown skin are allowed to float around without offending him.

I was hoping that this show would uncover or discuss something from a new angle, but it really wasn't all that different from any other report on the topic that I've seen.

Andrew DeFaria

Buendia wrote:

    > I completely understand what you're saying, but I think that, at least
    > here in the Southwest, Spanish is incredibly important both culturally
    > and in terms of business. The culture here is unique, and though I
    > wasn't born here, I've assimilated; I understand that it's not like
    > where I came from, and I've done my best to fit in. Part of that is
    > speaking Spanish, part of it is respecting local traditions (including
    > building traditions - I'm an architect). And it's very much a current
    > thing, not just in the past.

Hmmm... I've lived in Dallas for 2 years and then the Bay Area. Now I'm
down in the LA Area and I admit there is a lot of Spanish spoken here.
There was a lot spoken in the Bay Area too along with Chinese, etc.
Still I have not had to learn Spanish nor Chinese. Perhaps NM is
different...

    > I just crossed a state border to live here, rather than an
    > international border. But I'd say that within the US, there are
    > regions that are very different from one another. (You wouldn't
    > mistake New Mexico for Vermont!). And the laws vary, too. I have
    > adopted this state as my home, and consider myself a New Mexican.
    > I guess what I was trying to say is that in singling out that one
    > immigrant group (Mexican, Spanish-speaking), the man in the program,
    > D.A., is assuming that there is a sort of homogenous "American"
    > culture that they don't fit into.

Well I haven't seen the show but from what was posted it didn't seem
like he was necessarily singling out just Spanish speaking people rather
all non-English speaking people. That would qualify Europeans too for
instance.

    > There are Mexican immigrants here in New Mexico as well, and perhaps
    > they fit in better here because of the advantage here of being
    > bilingual (and most of the Mexican immigrants I've known are bilingual
    > v. the Americans I know who often speak only English).

Think about it - doesn't that make sense? Why would Americans learn
other languages? Now I'm not saying that none do - lots do. And I'm not
saying that it may be, at times, advantageous to say learn Spanish if
you happen to be in an area where lots of people speak Spanish and that
would give you an edge. But as you say, would you expect people from
Vermont or say Nebraska to have a need to learn Spanish for that
advantage? Probably not.

    > My husband and I were wondering if D.A. would fell that he was a more
    > "desirable" immigrant just because he happens to be from a country
    > that speaks English.

It does stand to reason that somebody who speaks the native language of
a country would fit in better and quicker - in general.

    > (Hope I'm not perpetuating a difficult discussion... definitely don't
    > mean to offend anyone and I know that most people don't feel like I
    > do... ah well... thank you to the First Amendment!!!)

How a.... PC...! :-)

--
Wanted: Meaningful overnight relationship.