Andrew DeFaria

meauxna wrote:

    > That fellow made the comment a couple of times about being "saved
    > "from the Third World". But the illegal Canadians, Brits and
    > Australians, as well as many others w/out brown skin are allowed to
    > float around without offending him.

As a percentage of the population, just how many illegal Canadians,
Brits and/or Australians do you there there are when compared to say
Mexico? Just curious...
--
How much deeper would oceans be if sponges didn't live there?

utopiacowboy

For what it is worth, I completely agree with you. Thank God Texas is much more enlightened than most of the other states in dealing with immigrants and these kinds of language issues.

Buendia

I know you're right, and yes, it was a rhetorical question, but all I can say is "ugh."

And I think you're right, too, that the show was really more of the same. But I'm still riveted by the topic...

Buendia

You know, NM is different... and strange.... and wonderful... and annoying sometimes... but different partly in that the people speaking Spanish aren't immigrants, but people whose families have been here for hundreds and hundreds of years. Actually, I sometimes think the official language of the state is Spanglish - and I'm very proficient at that !!!

I think it's always beneificial to speak another language... wherever you are... just for the sake of education, and being able to relate to another culture... I don't think it has to be Spanish at all - French, German, Italian, whatever! I learned Hebrew as a child, forgot most of it, but can still ask "Where is the bathroom?"

And I do agree completely that learning the language of the place you're living is important. My grandfather's family came to this country from Russia, but though he was born in New York, he spoke no English until he entered school at age 6. (He lived in an immigrant neighborhood with other Russian Jews) Yikes! The worst problem with this, in my opinion, is that when people cluster in neighborhoods speaking only their own language, their isn't a cultural exchange, and this can breed racism.

I want to add that I lived in Ireland for a year, and was in the process of learning Irish; I'm very proud of what I learned, and I think the words and phrases I did know gave me "street cred" and an understanding of the culture I wouldn't have had otherwise...

... but I still think the Spanish language and Mexican culture in this country is a good thing, makes us more diverse, just like the Irish, German, Russian immigrants were good for the country when they came...

Rete

In that respect many of us are. Of course, I was interested in it long before I had to deal with it on a daily basis but my take on it was somewhat different then it is today. While the language and lack of assimilation issues are ones that severly irk me, it is the attitude of the policy makers and enforcers that now raise my blood pressure.

The cavalier attitude of the CIS director interviewed on the show and his rhetoric about "but they have families here, etc., etc.," clearly demonstrates just how unimportant illegal aliens are in the eyes of the CIS. If they can get them at the border then they will turn them around. However, if they make it pass the checkpoint, then they wish them well. In a few years time, someone in Congress will propose a bill for some type of amnesty for these border jumpers, it will be passed and signed by the President and the illegal aliens will be accorded a privilege that those of us who have worked the system legally had to pay for with our sweat, money and emotions.

They insured that we brought in people who were financially supported and who were not criminals nor had health issues. But let the poor, illiterate third world citizen slip across the border without an education, no financial security and no means of future support and the CIS turns into Mother Theresa and feeds, clothes, houses, schools and medically supports the poor unfortunates. The only problem there is guess who is really footing the bills? You got it. We do. Not just the US citizen. But the legal aliens, as well.

I fully agree with one participant in the program, these illegals are turning major parts of our major cities into third world countries. Sure the program interviewed hard working illegals who have risen above what their status would have been in their own country. However, for every one success story, how many failures are there? 5, 10, 20, 30? I don't have the statistics.

The newspaper in our area has been running a series on the illegal aliens in our county. All of them send money back to their native countries for relatives left behind. How do people who only earn $8 to $10 an hour manage to send $200 and upwards back to their country each month? Rents here for a one bedroom is over $850 a month. Food for a family of two is $85 a week. So the reports talk about people who are living 3, 4 and 6 to a one bedroom apartment. Most apartments are illegal apartments in older homes.

It is the dual edged sword that irks me. I have to obey the laws of CIS and get reamed a new one if I were to so much as suggest that someone enter the US with pre-conceived intent to marry and remain. At least that person has a means to remain legally and work legally and have a legal life. But those same naysayers are not pontificating about illegal aliens who sidestep the law altogether and at some point is patted on the head and forgiven their transgressions.

Language and assimilation aside, why is illegal immigration tolerated? Look at the tag on your Toyota or GM vehicle. Most of them are manufacturered in Mexico. Look at the major drug manufacturers. Many of their plants are now located in Mexico or Puerto Rico. Those are just two of the industries I am familiar with. We are outsourcing our work to the Islands and India. By doing so we not only insure higher earnings for the manfacturers but are also suppose to be helping the economy in those nations. If so, why the hell are they flocking here?

As for the issue of New Mexico having been a Spanish terrority before it became a US state, that is true. So was California and Florida. But the fact is that they are not Spanish terrorities any longer. Nor is Louisiana a terrority of France. The main language of the US is English. It is the language of business. By all means hold on to your culture. My family has held on to its German and Polish culture. But damn we all speak English. And we all migrated here legally.

Rete

cindyabs

FYI-actually back at our country's founding after the Revolutionary War, we came within a hair's breadth of having German for the official language!! Also had Ben Franklin had his way the turkey would be our national symbol........

Andrew DeFaria

Rete wrote:

    > The cavalier attitude of the CIS director interviewed on the show and
    > his rhetoric about "but they have families here, etc., etc.," clearly
    > demonstrates just how unimportant illegal aliens are in the eyes of
    > the CIS.

Excuse me, I still haven't seen this show however is it portraying
itself as a documentary or just a docu-drama. If the later, how can we
be sure that it is at all accurate (Hell documentaries often contain
factual errors and opinions).

    > If they can get them at the border then they will turn them around.
    > However, if they make it pass the checkpoint, then they wish them
    > well. In a few years time, someone in Congress will propose a bill for
    > some type of amnesty for these border jumpers, it will be passed and
    > signed by the President and the illegal aliens will be accorded a
    > privilege that those of us who have worked the system legally had to
    > pay for with our sweat, money and emotions.

Hear, hear! Never understood them amnesty programs. What keeps getting
stuck in my mind is "Why can't they just come here legally?".

    > They insured that we brought in people who were financially supported
    > and who were not criminals nor had health issues. But let the poor,
    > illiterate third world citizen slip across the border without an
    > education, no financial security and no means of future support and
    > the CIS turns into Mother Theresa and feeds, clothes, houses, schools
    > and medically supports the poor unfortunates. The only problem there
    > is guess who is really footing the bills? You got it. We do. Not just
    > the US citizen. But the legal aliens, as well.
    > I fully agree with one participant in the program, these illegals are
    > turning major parts of our major cities into third world countries.
    > Sure the program interviewed hard working illegals who have risen
    > above what their status would have been in their own country. However,
    > for every one success story, how many failures are there? 5, 10, 20,
    > 30? I don't have the statistics.

And don't forget the people hanging out in the middle, not a bona fide
success, not a totally failure either. Still costs society in general.

    > The newspaper in our area has been running a series on the illegal
    > aliens in our county. All of them send money back to their native
    > countries for relatives left behind. How do people who only earn $8 to
    > $10 an hour manage to send $200 and upwards back to their country each
    > month? Rents here for a one bedroom is over $850 a month. Food for a
    > family of two is $85 a week. So the reports talk about people who are
    > living 3, 4 and 6 to a one bedroom apartment. Most apartments are
    > illegal apartments in older homes.

Perhaps they are getting benefits, again, illegally! I mean they are
already illegal - what do they care if they break another law!

    > It is the dual edged sword that irks me. I have to obey the laws of
    > CIS and get reamed a new one if I were to so much as suggest that
    > someone enter the US with pre-conceived intent to marry and remain. At
    > least that person has a means to remain legally and work legally and
    > have a legal life.

Not necessarily. They could be hooked up with a spouse who is as law
biding as the alien!

    > But those same naysayers are not pontificating about illegal aliens
    > who sidestep the law altogether and at some point is patted on the
    > head and forgiven their transgressions.
    > Language and assimilation aside, why is illegal immigration tolerated?

Exactly!

    > Look at the tag on your Toyota or GM vehicle. Most of them are
    > manufacturered in Mexico. Look at the major drug manufacturers. Many
    > of their plants are now located in Mexico or Puerto Rico. Those are
    > just two of the industries I am familiar with. We are outsourcing our
    > work to the Islands and India. By doing so we not only insure higher
    > earnings for the manfacturers but are also suppose to be helping the
    > economy in those nations.

I hate these cracks as big, bad business. Did you ever think that
employers are indeed suffering from the downturn in the economy? I mean
trillions have been lost in a bust of not to long ago? There's no doubt
that wages in America are very high compared to the rest of the world.
Do you blame or fault businesses for looking to spend their wage $$$"s
in the best way that they can? Why?

You are assuming that it directly translates to the employer's bottom
line. If some businesses don't out-source then some of them will simply
have to go out of business. Net result then is that Americans loss jobs.
Less Americans working causes less disposable income to spent, which
translates to less sales. So businesses lower prices, causing further
pressure on businesses to cut costs, etc.

    > If so, why the hell are they flocking here?

My guess is that over all, it's still a better place to live. That and
that little thing called "FREEDOM".

    > As for the issue of New Mexico having been a Spanish terrority before
    > it became a US state, that is true. So was California and Florida. But
    > the fact is that they are not Spanish terrorities any longer. Nor is
    > Louisiana a terrority of France. The main language of the US is
    > English. It is the language of business. By all means hold on to your
    > culture. My family has held on to its German and Polish culture. But
    > damn we all speak English. And we all migrated here legally.

Hear, hear again! Being bought up in Jersey there were lots of Polish
and Italians when I was growing up. Most, if not all of them, spoke
English. Lots of them spoke their language too, and there were great
Polish and Italian festivals in the various parts of towns. They
celebrated their heritage but they spoke English. Few didn't except for
those who were usually quite old and who had recently came to the US so
learning English for them was rather difficult.

--
Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (T)hrowup

Andrew DeFaria

cindyabs wrote:

    > FYI-actually back at our country's founding after the Revolutionary
    > War, we came within a hair's breadth of having German for the official
    > language!!

While that may be interesting the fact of the matter is that the
language of the US is English.

    > Also had Ben Franklin had his way the turkey would be our national
    > symbol........

Yeah, and so?

--
A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture. You don't have to go.
You'll just be walking down the street, and...........ooooohhhhhh,
that's much better...

Buendia

I absolutely agree with this... we also obeyed the CIS laws and did everything by the book. It's been frustrating at times, but it's the only way we do things. And believe me, it's so, so annoying when we hear things like this:
- a friend of a friend who married someone to get her into the US (not a real marriage)
- people who knowingly come to the US with intent to marry
- acquaintances who want to know why we went through the K3 process because, afterall, "you just made things harder on yourselves; even if it would've been illegal, plenty of people do it."

I guess that's why my (admittedly unpopular) opinion is that the system should be changed so that following the law and entering this country legally is easier (because it seems a lot of people take the easy way out - or in, as the case may be), and is rewarded rather than punished. Because right now, coming in illegally is easier, and apparently it's ignored if not rewarded.

Anyway, so glad I found this website, so that we have the information to negotiate the legal process, and so that we have moral support while we do...

cindyabs

Okay, so you're not interested in playing Trivial Pursuit.

ian-mstm

Freedom implies responsibility - and it's unfortunate that so many want the former but forget the latter!

Ian

Andrew DeFaria

Buendia wrote:

    > I guess that's why my (admittedly unpopular) opinion is that the
    > system should be changed so that following the law and entering this
    > country legally is easier (because it seems a lot of people take the
    > easy way out - or in, as the case may be), and is rewarded rather than
    > punished. Because right now, coming in illegally is easier, and
    > apparently it's ignored if not rewarded.

Well working for a living is harder than stealing money so I don't think
that immigrating legally will ever be easier than breaking the law. But
like stealing, immigrating illegally is well, illegal. What we need is
enforcement so that such things become harder for the law breakers. The
law biding people will probably always find it difficult. IOW we need to
really make it not worth it to break the law.

--
Ever notice when you blow in a dog's face he gets mad at you, but when
you take him in a car he sticks his head out the window?

Andrew DeFaria

cindyabs wrote:

    >> cindyabs wrote:
    >>> FYI-actually back at our country's founding after the Revolutionary
    >>> War, we came within a hair's breadth of having German for the
    >>> official language!!
    >> While that may be interesting the fact of the matter is that the
    >> language of the US is English.
    >>> Also had Ben Franklin had his way the turkey would be our national
    >>> symbol........
    >> Yeah, and so?
    > Okay, so you're not interested in playing Trivial Pursuit.

I didn't know this was the Trivial Pursuit newsgroup! ;-)

--
...Every morning is the dawn of a new error...

Aliluv

I had to add about German almost being spoken in the US that it's not accurate

http://www.watzmann.net/scg/german-by-one-vote.html

I live in California so I am used to everything being printed in english and spanish. All DMV and police forms etc. My perception is lots of immigrants cannot speak english. I carpool with a mexican girl and she said her parents do not speak english (they have lived her for 50 years) and that she learned in school. She said it is common for mexican parents to only speak spanish in the home and they send their kids to school to learn english.

Andrew DeFaria

Aliluv wrote:

    > I live in California so I am used to everything being printed in
    > english and spanish. All DMV and police forms etc. My perception is
    > lots of immigrants cannot speak english. I carpool with a mexican girl
    > and she said her parents do not speak english (they have lived her for
    > 50 years) and that she learned in school. She said it is common for
    > mexican parents to only speak spanish in the home and they send their
    > kids to school to learn english.

I believe that if an immigrant does not get US citizenship within 5
years then they should not be allowed to stay. And in order to get
citizenship a command of the English language should be required. I
don't know of any guests that I would call "guests" after a year or two.
If you're gonna stay here then become a citizen!

--
Cannot find REALITY.SYS. Universe halted.