OT: Am I the only one...?
Mar 3rd 2001, 6:20 pm
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
hi earlier in this thread someone mentioned the possibility of simply blocking the posts
of some newsgroup members (Grinch, etc) that we find offensive. i am hoping to do this
instead of giving up on the newsgroup altogether.
but i have been unable to block the messages (i am using outlook express). can anyone
offer any guidance as to how i go about this? thanks.
of some newsgroup members (Grinch, etc) that we find offensive. i am hoping to do this
instead of giving up on the newsgroup altogether.
but i have been unable to block the messages (i am using outlook express). can anyone
offer any guidance as to how i go about this? thanks.
Mar 3rd 2001, 6:29 pm
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Simple to do ... open the message from the unwanted party and go to message in the of
outlook and press block. That is all there is to it.
Rita (who is probably blocked by many)
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outlook and press block. That is all there is to it.
Rita (who is probably blocked by many)
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Mar 3rd 2001, 6:30 pm
#18
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Soroya,
It's not intended to be the right answer. It's called 'sarcasm', and it's an effective way
to make a valid point.
Regards, JEff
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It's not intended to be the right answer. It's called 'sarcasm', and it's an effective way
to make a valid point.
Regards, JEff
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Soraya wrote:
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Mar 3rd 2001, 7:19 pm
#19
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Yeah Try alt.Ihavenoideahowtodoanythingdespitehavingauniver sityofchicagomailaddress
or better still open outlook express hit f1 and read the help files.
Have fun
Grinch
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Yeah Try alt.Ihavenoideahowtodoanythingdespitehavingauniver sityofchicagomailaddress
or better still open outlook express hit f1 and read the help files.
Have fun
Grinch
Mar 3rd 2001, 7:30 pm
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
I´m sorry Grinch, but this is not the right answer.
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Mar 3rd 2001, 7:31 pm
#21
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Evan and Sheila wrote:
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this attitude, as you call it, is something called netiquette. lack of it was one of the
reasons people who'd been on usenet for a years got really really annoyed at aolers when
aol started offering usenet access to its members (and the end result of that was that
aol put up files about how to be polite on usenet that it asks members to read before
they post).
this is a community, a gathering. you wouldn't walk into a group of strangers having a
discussion and start asking questions without listening to what's being said -- most
people would consider that to be really rude. what makes it acceptable to walk up to an
online gathering of people having a discussion and interject questions without having
taken the time to bring yourself up to speed on what's being talked about, if someone's
just been talking about what you wnat to bring up, if there's a specific thread that's
addressing your question?
i've seen on many newsgroups (and this is a newsgroup, not a web site or a bbs or a web
board) newbies coming in, asking faqs or making clueless statements that demonstrate
they've not bothered to read any of the group efore before. the regulars get irritated at
what seems like them to rudeness ("i don't want to find out if this is the right forum or
if maybe my question's been answered already; i'm here to demand that people tell me what
i want to know and sulk if they tell me to look it up"). the newbies get irritated back
because they think "check out the faq" is rudeness.
if you read this newsgroup for even a day, you'll find many references to the existence
and the location of the ng faq -- several prolific posters keep it in their sig lines.
if someone can say "i've read the faq and this bit doesn't make sense to me; can you
explain?" they are much more likely to get a good response than someone who comes in
asking faqs. (although there are some people here who patiently answer the ruder
newbies anyway.)
once more, usenet is not meant to be a public resource. it is a collection of groups of
people discussing stuff about a topic of mutual interest. that a given newsgroup can also
be a valuable resource is a bonus.
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this attitude, as you call it, is something called netiquette. lack of it was one of the
reasons people who'd been on usenet for a years got really really annoyed at aolers when
aol started offering usenet access to its members (and the end result of that was that
aol put up files about how to be polite on usenet that it asks members to read before
they post).
this is a community, a gathering. you wouldn't walk into a group of strangers having a
discussion and start asking questions without listening to what's being said -- most
people would consider that to be really rude. what makes it acceptable to walk up to an
online gathering of people having a discussion and interject questions without having
taken the time to bring yourself up to speed on what's being talked about, if someone's
just been talking about what you wnat to bring up, if there's a specific thread that's
addressing your question?
i've seen on many newsgroups (and this is a newsgroup, not a web site or a bbs or a web
board) newbies coming in, asking faqs or making clueless statements that demonstrate
they've not bothered to read any of the group efore before. the regulars get irritated at
what seems like them to rudeness ("i don't want to find out if this is the right forum or
if maybe my question's been answered already; i'm here to demand that people tell me what
i want to know and sulk if they tell me to look it up"). the newbies get irritated back
because they think "check out the faq" is rudeness.
if you read this newsgroup for even a day, you'll find many references to the existence
and the location of the ng faq -- several prolific posters keep it in their sig lines.
if someone can say "i've read the faq and this bit doesn't make sense to me; can you
explain?" they are much more likely to get a good response than someone who comes in
asking faqs. (although there are some people here who patiently answer the ruder
newbies anyway.)
once more, usenet is not meant to be a public resource. it is a collection of groups of
people discussing stuff about a topic of mutual interest. that a given newsgroup can also
be a valuable resource is a bonus.
--
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Mar 3rd 2001, 7:43 pm
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Evan and Sheila wrote:
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actually, it's a newsgroup -- a forum to discuss a topic. it's a veryhelpful and useful
and informative forum, but it's still a newsgroup.
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actually, it's a newsgroup -- a forum to discuss a topic. it's a veryhelpful and useful
and informative forum, but it's still a newsgroup.
--
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Mar 3rd 2001, 8:50 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think that we sometimes forget that "netiquette", like "etiquette", is a leaned skill.
When I was younger, I made a lot of social faux pas, and learned from them. I still
occasionally screw up in social situations, but it is less common. When I first came to
usenet, I made a lot of mistakes, unknowingly. I was fortunate (or maybe unfortunate)
enough to be introduced to Usenet through a support group which is very accepting of
inappropriate behavior, since most of the newbies in that group are new to usenet in
general and undergoing nicotine withdrawal to boot.
I am relatively new to usenet in general, however, and I know I sometimes post
inappropriately, although I try not to. I deleted a post of mine just yesterday, because I
was tired when I wrote it and didn't stop to think that it was not appropriate. I look
back at some of the questions I asked when I first came here, and they are "typical"
newbie questions. I had read the FAQ, but I didn't understand everything and it was more
than a bit overwhelming. When I think of how naive I was about the process, I'm almost
embarrassed. When Eddie and I first decided to get married, I honestly thought we just had
to have a wedding and he could come over and become a resident. I'm glad I investigated
further - especially after reading about some of the sad situations that have occurred
when people tried something like that. I'd hate to have to be separated from Eddie for 2
years while waiting for AOS. Some of my postings were ignored, but I am grateful that I
wasn't attacked. It would have made this whole process more difficult. Some of the people
who are being impatient now were very supportive then, in spite of my ignorance. Until
recently, I was quite impressed by this groups tolerance of "newbie" questions.
Personally, I'm attributing it to the fact that it's been a long winter and people are
restless in general.
One thing I've learned, though, is that Usenet is not for the faint of heart. People say
things through a keyboard that they would never dream of saying to a stranger in person.
Or even a friend. This is a different form of communication than I've ever experienced -
talking to people all over the world whom I've never met, and probably will never meet.
This impersonal interface has advantages and disadvantages - we can really get to know
each other (like Eddie and I did) without physical features interfering or we can display
aspects of ourselves that we would never display if the person on the other end of the
keyboard were standing in front of us. Sometimes negative aspects. We also have the
advantage of being able to ignore someone's question without appearing rude, just by not
replying. That would be rough in person. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and
look at their overall behavior. Everybody has bad days, and bad weeks. That doesn't make
them a bad person.
And good point about those who are curled up next to their spouses - I think the negative
memories do fade in time. On the other hand, I am *extremely* grateful to them for
hanging around and sometimes even maintaining web pages to help those of us coming along
behind. Obviously they remember something - and are magnanimous enough to help others
along the way.
Hang in there, Beth - we're going to all get through this.
Diane M.
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When I was younger, I made a lot of social faux pas, and learned from them. I still
occasionally screw up in social situations, but it is less common. When I first came to
usenet, I made a lot of mistakes, unknowingly. I was fortunate (or maybe unfortunate)
enough to be introduced to Usenet through a support group which is very accepting of
inappropriate behavior, since most of the newbies in that group are new to usenet in
general and undergoing nicotine withdrawal to boot.
I am relatively new to usenet in general, however, and I know I sometimes post
inappropriately, although I try not to. I deleted a post of mine just yesterday, because I
was tired when I wrote it and didn't stop to think that it was not appropriate. I look
back at some of the questions I asked when I first came here, and they are "typical"
newbie questions. I had read the FAQ, but I didn't understand everything and it was more
than a bit overwhelming. When I think of how naive I was about the process, I'm almost
embarrassed. When Eddie and I first decided to get married, I honestly thought we just had
to have a wedding and he could come over and become a resident. I'm glad I investigated
further - especially after reading about some of the sad situations that have occurred
when people tried something like that. I'd hate to have to be separated from Eddie for 2
years while waiting for AOS. Some of my postings were ignored, but I am grateful that I
wasn't attacked. It would have made this whole process more difficult. Some of the people
who are being impatient now were very supportive then, in spite of my ignorance. Until
recently, I was quite impressed by this groups tolerance of "newbie" questions.
Personally, I'm attributing it to the fact that it's been a long winter and people are
restless in general.
One thing I've learned, though, is that Usenet is not for the faint of heart. People say
things through a keyboard that they would never dream of saying to a stranger in person.
Or even a friend. This is a different form of communication than I've ever experienced -
talking to people all over the world whom I've never met, and probably will never meet.
This impersonal interface has advantages and disadvantages - we can really get to know
each other (like Eddie and I did) without physical features interfering or we can display
aspects of ourselves that we would never display if the person on the other end of the
keyboard were standing in front of us. Sometimes negative aspects. We also have the
advantage of being able to ignore someone's question without appearing rude, just by not
replying. That would be rough in person. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and
look at their overall behavior. Everybody has bad days, and bad weeks. That doesn't make
them a bad person.
And good point about those who are curled up next to their spouses - I think the negative
memories do fade in time. On the other hand, I am *extremely* grateful to them for
hanging around and sometimes even maintaining web pages to help those of us coming along
behind. Obviously they remember something - and are magnanimous enough to help others
along the way.
Hang in there, Beth - we're going to all get through this.
Diane M.
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Mar 3rd 2001, 9:57 pm
#25
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Posts: n/a
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I did not realize that only those with experience in all things net-related were
allowed to post online. How are you to get experience without doing? If they don't
KNOW they're doing something "wrong", then they have no motivation to correct it. All
this about netiquette is new to me. I thought that manners were manners, regardless
of whether it was face to face or online. I just try to be nice to people, and don't
accept other people being rude to me. Simple as that. Not everyone who goes into a
newsgroup spends hours and hours researching the hows and whys. My parents spring
immediately to mind, and whenever someone assaults someone who asks a simple
question, I imagine my poor technologically challenged mother, who's never been mean
to anyone a day in her life, getting reprimanded for not following the ever-growing
list of "rules."
If you were going to a restaurant that a friend frequented, and you didn't know how
to get there, would you ask your friend, or would you get a street map, find the
exact address, and figure out how to get there yourself? And would your friend think
you rude if you asked directions, when you could so easily get that info from
somewhere else?
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To me, disrespect is being rude or using vulgarity. In the world where I came from,
asking a question is not akin to lack of respect. In the cases I was referring to, the
"newbie" was polite. It was the experienced user who was rude. I've seen very few
newbies being out and out rude here.
I work in customer service. I get people ask me the same questions every day. Do I get
bored with it? Yes. But I realize that just because I'VE heard it a thousand times
before doesn't mean the person asking has, or they wouldn't have asked.
I'm leaving this thread now (but not the newsgroup). It's getting me upset, and it's a
shame because most of the people here have been so nice. I just don't like how
clique-ish everything online seems to be becoming, where if you don't know all the
lingo, abbreviations, lengthy lists of rules, etc etc etc you are made to feel
unwelcome. If I want an exclusive society, I'll try to join the country club. Of
course, they won't let me in, because I'm not rich.
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I did not realize that only those with experience in all things net-related were
allowed to post online. How are you to get experience without doing? If they don't
KNOW they're doing something "wrong", then they have no motivation to correct it. All
this about netiquette is new to me. I thought that manners were manners, regardless
of whether it was face to face or online. I just try to be nice to people, and don't
accept other people being rude to me. Simple as that. Not everyone who goes into a
newsgroup spends hours and hours researching the hows and whys. My parents spring
immediately to mind, and whenever someone assaults someone who asks a simple
question, I imagine my poor technologically challenged mother, who's never been mean
to anyone a day in her life, getting reprimanded for not following the ever-growing
list of "rules."
If you were going to a restaurant that a friend frequented, and you didn't know how
to get there, would you ask your friend, or would you get a street map, find the
exact address, and figure out how to get there yourself? And would your friend think
you rude if you asked directions, when you could so easily get that info from
somewhere else?
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To me, disrespect is being rude or using vulgarity. In the world where I came from,
asking a question is not akin to lack of respect. In the cases I was referring to, the
"newbie" was polite. It was the experienced user who was rude. I've seen very few
newbies being out and out rude here.
I work in customer service. I get people ask me the same questions every day. Do I get
bored with it? Yes. But I realize that just because I'VE heard it a thousand times
before doesn't mean the person asking has, or they wouldn't have asked.
I'm leaving this thread now (but not the newsgroup). It's getting me upset, and it's a
shame because most of the people here have been so nice. I just don't like how
clique-ish everything online seems to be becoming, where if you don't know all the
lingo, abbreviations, lengthy lists of rules, etc etc etc you are made to feel
unwelcome. If I want an exclusive society, I'll try to join the country club. Of
course, they won't let me in, because I'm not rich.
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Mar 3rd 2001, 10:00 pm
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thank you, Diane. As always, you have a kind word to say. And yes, I am terribly grateful
that so many have been willing to make our lives easier by sharing their own experiences.
I've said that repeatedly, and I mean it completely.
Beth
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that so many have been willing to make our lives easier by sharing their own experiences.
I've said that repeatedly, and I mean it completely.
Beth
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Mar 3rd 2001, 10:23 pm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
I can't see that a NG could get any more public than they already are. Otherwise the ones
who created it need to research and find a way to lock it down to outsiders. I too have
been on the internet for many years. I may not have been there when it first began and I
may not know every single thing about it. However I have been interacting with people the
whole time. This whole 'newbie' thing is such a ridiculous idea. Being rude to a new
person is not called netiquette. It's called being rude, plain and quite simple.
Further, this isn't just one discussion. There are many many different discussions
going on in this group. Now if someone posted asking about a work visa then yes, tell
them they'd find better information on a work visa related newsgroup. (Although there
are a few people here who have a lot of knowledge of a variety of visas) So no, I
wouldn't walk in and start asking questions without knowing what's being said. However,
if I knew they were talking about purple dinosaurs.. I wouldn't hesitate to ask if
purple dinosaurs have green tongues. Whether it's a dumb question or not, it's on topic
and I'm looking for the answer. Especially if I knew they were talking about these
dinosaurs tongues, tails or how they walk. For each person is looking for different
information on the purple dinosaur. Which is the purpose of the newsgroup, to help
other people looking for information about purple dinosaurs.
I'm not saying that directing someone to an FAQ webpage is rude. I'm talking about the
attitude that comes along with it lately. If you doubt this, look at the posts that are
starting to pop up in regards to it.
Cheers, Evan
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who created it need to research and find a way to lock it down to outsiders. I too have
been on the internet for many years. I may not have been there when it first began and I
may not know every single thing about it. However I have been interacting with people the
whole time. This whole 'newbie' thing is such a ridiculous idea. Being rude to a new
person is not called netiquette. It's called being rude, plain and quite simple.
Further, this isn't just one discussion. There are many many different discussions
going on in this group. Now if someone posted asking about a work visa then yes, tell
them they'd find better information on a work visa related newsgroup. (Although there
are a few people here who have a lot of knowledge of a variety of visas) So no, I
wouldn't walk in and start asking questions without knowing what's being said. However,
if I knew they were talking about purple dinosaurs.. I wouldn't hesitate to ask if
purple dinosaurs have green tongues. Whether it's a dumb question or not, it's on topic
and I'm looking for the answer. Especially if I knew they were talking about these
dinosaurs tongues, tails or how they walk. For each person is looking for different
information on the purple dinosaur. Which is the purpose of the newsgroup, to help
other people looking for information about purple dinosaurs.
I'm not saying that directing someone to an FAQ webpage is rude. I'm talking about the
attitude that comes along with it lately. If you doubt this, look at the posts that are
starting to pop up in regards to it.
Cheers, Evan
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Mar 3rd 2001, 10:27 pm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry, I had used 'ng' to reference newsgroup. Or is it that I used 'forum' but you did
too so I assume that wasn't it. I'll be sure to not take shortcuts next time.
Cheers, Evan
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too so I assume that wasn't it. I'll be sure to not take shortcuts next time.
Cheers, Evan
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Mar 3rd 2001, 11:56 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
id just like to say that on the few occasions that i have posted questions i have found
all responses very helpful,those that have contributed include both grinch and alvena..
this news group is a blessing and i have gleened an awful lot of very useful info without
the need to ask tons of questions.. i can see both points of view but i do also think that
it definately pays people to find out info about their own particular situation from the
numorous web sites before asking questions many of which could have already be answered
for them if they had done a little reading
all responses very helpful,those that have contributed include both grinch and alvena..
this news group is a blessing and i have gleened an awful lot of very useful info without
the need to ask tons of questions.. i can see both points of view but i do also think that
it definately pays people to find out info about their own particular situation from the
numorous web sites before asking questions many of which could have already be answered
for them if they had done a little reading
Mar 4th 2001, 12:07 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
As with the army, every freshman is a newbie. The tradition carries on. Whether it's
polite or not, directing someone to "read the frisking manual' or the FAQ is necessary.
Otherwise we'd be spending hundreds of hours per months answering questions that have been
replied to before. No-one has the time to do this for free over and over again. Being
sensitive is ok, being lazy is not. Unless all one knows is about AOL.
SB
On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:23:05 GMT, "Evan and Sheila"
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polite or not, directing someone to "read the frisking manual' or the FAQ is necessary.
Otherwise we'd be spending hundreds of hours per months answering questions that have been
replied to before. No-one has the time to do this for free over and over again. Being
sensitive is ok, being lazy is not. Unless all one knows is about AOL.
SB
On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:23:05 GMT, "Evan and Sheila"
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