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OT: Am I the only one...?

OT: Am I the only one...?

Old Mar 3rd 2001, 3:42 am
  #1  
billypilgrim
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Hullo. I'm relatively new here, so perhaps I should just sit back and keep my mouth shut.
I've gotten so much information, between the newsgroup and the FAQ, and I am truly
grateful. There are many lovely and thoughtful people who frequent this newsgroup.

I've noticed, though, that some poor souls who ask questions get harsh replies telling
them the answers can be found elsewhere (as opposed to the gentle reminders and posted
links, which ARE helpful, which I've also seen, and made use of). I'm not sure I
understand. If you've been coming here for ages, and you don't want to answer a particular
question because it's old hat, why not just ignore it? And, it is possible that some
people found the newsgroup who haven't yet found the FAQ.

The thing is, many of us come here for some friendly exchanges as well as for hard and
fast answers. Very few of us have anyone in our off-line lives who have gone through the
process, and so we don't have other people who understand (and frankly some of our friends
are probably sick of hearing of I-129's and POE's and timelines and "gathering evidence").
People are nervous and missing their loved ones, and afraid because what if they get
turned down. The newsgroup offers some emotional support as well as it's wealth of
practical advice.

Lots of redundant questions get asked, but it's the social equivalent of getting together
with your friends and sharing those same old stories that you've heard a thousand times.
It's comforting, it's reassuring, it's nice to share experiences with those who have been
there or are going through the same thing.

After reading some of these responses, I'm almost afraid to ask any questions.

Just my opinion. Feel free to comment, feel free to vent. But no flames, please!

Beth
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 4:42 am
  #2  
Grinch
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seen,
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This has been discussed many times and no doubt it will be discussed again. I have one
point. If you have not read the FAQ you should not be posting in the group. It should be
mandatory. If you do not know there is a Faq then you have not enough knowledge to be
allowed to post. If everyone read this first http://www.k1faq.com/guidelines1.htm then
posted there would be less of what you are opinionating on.

Grinch
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 5:17 am
  #3  
Alex Jackson
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Grinch wrote:

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So what you are saying is that a person who accesses this newsgroup through their ISP and
netscape should not be allowed to post because they do not know that the newsgroup has a
webpage and a facts answers question (FAQ) page. Of course they also would have no way of
knowing they can not post either. And then there is that overwhelming 5 to 7 thousand
posts that greet them when they first sign on to the newsgroup this way. Of course they
should spend hours going through all those posts seeing if their question has been asked
at any point - or is hidden in any of the topics that may have nothing to do with the
topic any more. Then again maybe their first question should be how to search the
newsgroup for what they are looking for. Of course there is also the point that anyone who
is not going the fiancee route will think that the link (you provided above) does not
apply to them.

I understand the annoyance of people asking questions about things they can find
themselves. I have a 20 yr old step-son who constantly gets his mom to do things he is
very capable of. I think it is far better to just not answer a post then to berate the
person on the list - all that accomplishes is to make new people afraid to ask honest
questions.

I get the distinct impression Rita that you are having a bad day/week. Hope it gets better
for you soon. Not PMS is it (duck) ;}.

Alex .
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 5:22 am
  #4  
Kristin
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Yay.. well said Alex.. and Beth too.. ( just wrote you personally.. : ).. we are here to
help each other, veteran and newbie alike. Let's just point people in the right direction
rather than pull the rug out from underneath them before they even get started..

Kristin, (who mostly lurks but tries to help in any way I can...)

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through
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Hope it
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Old Mar 3rd 2001, 5:31 am
  #5  
Grinch
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I agree. I will contact the new Faq maintainer and ask him to remove the site. It is
obviously not needed as people do not read it and others object to people suggesting they
read it. Then everyone can run around asking inane questions and everyone else can ignore
them. Of course then some will get upset that no-one is answering them and repost and some
can post enormous signature blocks with no fear of anyone reprimanding them. I will
constantly post the lyrics to Nirvana songs and all will be sweetness and light.

Grinch
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 7:11 am
  #6  
Evan and Sheila
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Really, if you have noticed it's only a few people that take this attitude. Then of course
a few others listen and decide to adopt that attitude as well. I read the group quite a
bit a couple years ago and this attitude was never there. As I started reading again a
little while ago I've noticed it's just developed the last little while. It's sad to see
it come. Although it's good to see that some of the new people disagree with it. Maybe
we'll be lucky and it'll eventually work it's way out and the group will return to it's
helpful ways.

Cheers, Evan

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Old Mar 3rd 2001, 7:12 am
  #7  
Evan and Sheila
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I don't think anyone objects to it being suggested that someone read the FAQ. I think the
problem arises with the attitude and the name calling that comes along with it.

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Old Mar 3rd 2001, 1:04 pm
  #8  
Rete
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For Alex: Nope not PMS but yes, an emotional week. For Kristin: They were pointed in the
right direction but refuse to go that way For Evan: Who is name calling?

When Deja was up and running they had their own Usenet help directory that gave you hints
on how to start posting to a group and part of the directions was to lurk and read a while
before posting, read the FAQ, etc. Since that it not available (I checked and it an
abbreviation version), here is a link for netiquette and an excerpt from Google.

I am not opposed to answering multiple questions on the very same subject. I do, however,
have a personal grippe about people who post simple questions which they should be able to
research on their own on the net rather than assume that someone else will do it for them.
If they have made the effort and failed in their search then of course ask away. But we
are suppose to be old enough and mature enough to be getting married and therefore should
be smart enough and resourceful enough to handle finding answers to simple questions. If
you can't find it then come back and state that you have looked unsuccessfully and would
appreciate some help.

For a first time poster who doesn't know the netiquette, I and Grinch and several others
will give them the relevant URL's and ask them to read up and come back and ask away. But
there are some new posters who although they have been asked to do this refuse to do so
and continually ask questions that they can find on those URL's. For me it is frustrating
and for the most part I ignore them and/or put them on ignore on my server.

Link for Netiquette:

http://users.lmi.net/ennui/usenet001.htm

Excerpt from Google:

Avoid getting flamed

It turns out there is such a thing as a stupid question. It's the one that gets asked
right after someone answered it for the 100th time in a newsgroup discussion. Most
discussion forums have a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section where commonly asked
questions are posted and answered. You'll likely want to read this first upon entering a
new group, to ensure your question isn't treated like spam (junk mail). Spammers
frequently receive flame mail (heated retorts of a personally demeaning nature) directing
them to please read the FAQ. One way to find the FAQ, is to enter "faq" and the name of
the discussion forum in search box. You should get back a list of results containing the
FAQ if one exists.
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 3:39 pm
  #9  
Alex J
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Grinch wrote:

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I never said remove the site. But don't get upset that people haven't read it or even know
it exists or even applies to them if they are not going the fiancee route. That is like
getting pissed at a blind man because he keeps asking where the door is, instead of
showing him where it is.

Anyway I am out of this discussion. This has been the attitude of this group for a year
now and I really don't see it changing any.
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 3:50 pm
  #10  
Rete
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discussion. This has been the attitude of this group
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Alex

Yes it is an attitude. But when you were able to access deja it clearly states there is an
FAQ. The FAQ was originally designed for K-1 but the links there to official websites for
importing cars, customs, INS, IRS are for all types of visa users not just K-1. Also there
are links for I-130 and I-485. There are the experience pages there for POE, AOS, Social
Security, etc. It is an invaluable source of information for everyone not just K-1'ers.

Alvena and Jonathan and myself request people to stop in there and read. It is listed
after signatures. I understand your comment about your 20 year old stepson and his mother,
but when does a mother or father say enough already. You are an adult or purport you are
one then start acting like one. And when does the parent apply the brakes and makes the
child act as an adult and become responsible for their lives.

My attitude is no different in most respects than a parent who is pushing their child out
of the nest and saying fly already. To not do so is the equivalent of the government
telling its citizen at the age of 18 it can go to war and be killed or kill someone else
but they are not mature enough to handle alcoholic beverages.

You are right it is a discussion. And IMHO a valid one.

Rita
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 3:53 pm
  #11  
Alex J
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Rete wrote:

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Sorry to hear and hope things are better soon.
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 4:32 pm
  #12  
Alvena Ferreira
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Alex J wrote:
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You are perhaps interpreting the Grinch's posts to reflect the attitude of the entire
group. Please do not include everyone, including me, in that blanket statement, however.
Grinch appears to have a rather wicked sense of humor and strange way of providing
information. He can be crass most of the time, frankly.

If you can block posts, just block his and go on with your life. You may find that this
saves you a whole lot of stress. I have become accustomed to ignoring his posts, and I
find that this makes my newsgroup reading much more enjoyable as a result.

Grinch, don't take offense at my post, please. Some of us have thicker skin than others,
however, and the fiance/marriage visa process is very stressful. It can make concentration
very difficult for the newbies.

alvena marriage visa pages at: http://www2.apex.net/users/thehydes
 
Old Mar 3rd 2001, 5:33 pm
  #13  
Evan and Sheila
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I just wanted to say.. Nice post.

And very true, it's not the entire group going this way. There's just a few that have
rubbed off on one or two others. The unfortunate part is those ones post a lot.

Cheers, Evan

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Old Mar 3rd 2001, 5:36 pm
  #14  
billypilgrim
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Thanks for pointing out the stress level, Alvena. Some of those who are curling up next to
their spouse every night might forget what it's like for the rest of us, going through all
this paperwork and months apart.

My point was this: first of all, I HAVE done loads of research. I don't frequent
newsgroups, I've never been in a chatroom, and even though I have a foreign fiance who I
met through a penpal posting several years ago, I am not a nethead. Nor is everyone here.
I found the FAQ first, and through that I found the newsgroup. However, if you use Outlook
Express like I do, you can search through newsgroups by keyword, and stumble upon the
newsgroup first (and never have even come across a "netiquette" page). So it is very
possible that people who have virtually no experience with the internet, but are new to
e-mail, are posting on the newsgroup. No one should be mean to them. What if the person
you just attacked was 70 years old, brand new online, and met her honey on a cruise? How
would you feel, knowing you just made an old woman cry? We don't know who we are replying
to, and sometimes we make the erroneous assumption that most are like ourselves.

Secondly, with the half-dozen or more sites I've read, sometimes I forget where I found
something. So between working full time, keeping house, cooking, cleaning, socializing
with friends and family, and trying to maintain a relationship from overseas while making
copies, getting bank statements, and filling out forms, I don't always have the time to
look back through all the sites I have bookmarked for an answer. Sometimes it's easier to
post here. Quick, shoot me now. I broke one of the rules!!

Some poor guy posted in a happy frame of mind that he was getting married in Las Vegas,
and he got absolutely attacked. I doubt he'll be back, and I don't blame him. How would
you feel if you stopped at a gas station to ask directions and the guy behind the counter
yelled at you to look at a map?

We should be here to help and be helped. It's a newsgroup, for goodness sake. No one here
is better than anyone else. We've all made mistakes. We've all posted questions that
someone else thought were obvious.

Lastly,since we are all either involved with a foreign national, or are one ourselves, I
would assume many (if not most) of us have run into at least a little discrimination
somewhere along the way. I'd think this would make us all more understanding of others.

That's all from me. And again, I know I'm talking about a minority attitude here, so
thanks again to all you wonderful people who have made my experience just a bit easier.

Beth

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Old Mar 3rd 2001, 5:38 pm
  #15  
Evan and Sheila
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I could say that asking me about name calling is a very simple question that you could
have answered yourself. Really, that is how you feel about it. However.. There are many
cases of it, the one that sticks in my head the most is where one person's thread was
changed to Doofus.

This is a forum to help people. We're all here for help and to give help. It'll slowly
go back to that. The newbies who feel this way will slowly outnumber the few and the ng
will get back to what it was.

Cheers, Evan

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