Hiro11

Good point, I dodn't know that actually. However, Chicago gun laws remain among the most restrictive in the country.

RoadWarriorFromLP

And you base that on what exactly?

Boomhauer

The Orlando guy expressed allegiance to ISIS. His father supports the Taleban. His father said god would punish gays. Muslim countries are very repressive of homosexuals.
Omar Mateen, Orlando gunman, pledged allegiance to ISIS, official says - CNN.com

Just before the Orlando killings, a British Iman gave a sermon at a mosque in Florida saying gays should be killed.
Orlando shooting: 'Gays should be punished by God,' says gunman Omar Mateen's father�

I agree it is wrong to say Muslims think like the shooter but what must be understood is that Islam does advocate what this guy did.

Pulaski

As I explained above, that approach on its own might be mostly effective over the following 300-400 years.

katzgar

but neighboring laws are not

BubbleChog

I hang out in some feministy internet spots and there's lots of talk about toxic masculinity, and I think the US suffers from a similar toxic ideology; the main difference between the US and the other countries it's compared to when this shit goes down is the US sense of entitlement. The RIGHT to own guns. The fetishisation without definition of 'FREEDOM'. The ridiculous notion that the USA is special and extra blessed by god. The prevailing myth of the American dream - if you want it enough it will be yours.

All of this feeds into a perfect storm of hate-filled people angry at their non exceptional life, who can get their hands on 17 guns and 6000 rounds of ammunition and get 2 weeks of fame on CNN et al.

It's a cultural change that's needed before this can be addressed. Americans are obsessed with their rights and can't seem to fathom the link between rights and responsibilities.
The USA is a teenager perpetually getting pissy because they NEEEEEED the car this weekend and don't want to do the chores to earn it.

There's no point in talking about gun control until the shift happens and owning a gun is seen as a privilege and a responsibility instead of the god given right of any numpty that can stump up the cash. The country has to grow up a bit and it's just not going to happen. If 20 dead children didn't make this backwards country DO something then 50 dead people at a gay club certainly isn't.



The issue that's even bigger than the gun control issue which will be swept under the rug (again) is that too many people in this country will be thinking and saying that "The faggots deserved it". I've seen some horrible things online along exactly those lines. This was a hate crime and the shooter could just as easily have been a hate filled fundamentalist under the cross instead of the crescent. I'd also bet that if the shooter had been Christian instead of Muslim then they wouldn't be getting their knickers in a twist about it being classed as a terrorist attack. The religious hate in this country and the right wing politicians feeding on it means that these victims will be seen as less, they're not real people, just like the women victims at the Planned Parenthood Shooting were evil abortion seekers and not worthy of sympathy. **** them. **** them all and the #ThoughtsAndPrayers and the bigotry masquerading as piety

Hiro11

Depending on who you believe, Canada has roughly the same amount of private gun ownership as the US:
CSSA Ten Myths About Gun Control. (target shooting, shotgun, rifle, pistol, biathlon, free pistol, cowboy shooting, SASS, IPSC, PPC, IPDA, full-bore rifle, gun ban, gun control, handgun ban, C68, gun registry, confiscation, gun rights, self defense,

Note that there's a ton of debate about these numbers and no one really knows:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number...ita_by_country

Regardless, there's a lot of privately owned firearms in Canada. And yet the Canadian gun murder rate is far (far) below that of the US. In this (and likely this alone) I agree with Michael Moore's conclusion: it's not the mere presence of guns in the US that results in higher murder rates in the US, it's that there's something wrong with American culture. Specifically, a culture that allows ~1,700 people to be shot in 6 months in the third largest American city alone without being reported as a catastrophe and without something drastic like the National Guard being called in to deal with this tornado of violence. If these levels of violence were happening in London, it would rightly be seen as a crisis and some serious actions would be happening. And yet, we Americans just sort of ignore it. It's pathetic and dehumanizing.

Again, mass murders like Orlando generally spark these discussions and (as I said), they're not what we should be talking about if we were actually serious about gun violence. Yes, perhaps further restriction of guns is part of the answer, but clearly other major problems need to be tackled.

Specifically:
- why is the murder rate among black Americans roughly 8 times the rate among white Americans? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States )
- why is urban gang membership a basic requirement for survival in so many American neighborhoods? why is this tacitly tolerated by communities and public officials?
- what has happened over the past twenty years to reduce overall gun murders so drastically around the US despite limited changes in gun laws? how can we continue this trend? why has the rate increased in many cities in 2016, again despite no major changes in gun laws? what exactly is going on here?

These are complicated, multi-faceted and sometimes uncomfortable issues and yet they should be as much a part of any discussion of gun violence in the US as gun control. And yet, too often, this is painted as a "very simple" gun control issue. Again, it's dishonest and lazy.

Pulaski

I have commented on this recently, and my opinion was soundly trashed, but the "average American" out in the 'burbs, or rural areas, is highly unlikely to be threatened or otherwise impacted by gun violence. While the numbers of shootings and gun homicides is very high in the US, it is almost entirely confinded to drug/gang rivalries and the areas where drug dealers and gangs operate. Consequently, while it is easy to get people to agree that "something should be done", in practice it isn't a priority for most people, because the practical impact of the high gun-crime rate is much much lower for most people than the headline crime rates would suggest.

Jerseygirl

Apparently the murdering scumbag tried to buy military grade body amour and was refused...(even the police don't have this type of armour). Which begs the question...why wasn't this reported to the authorities? Perhaps it was but no or little acti9n was taken.

Philk

Now there's a story coming out that when 9/11 happened the shooter was watching it at school and cheered when the second plane hit. I can remember watching it back in the UK but was it known at the time it was terrorists or was everyone wondering WTF was going on?

Jerseygirl

It was evident fairly quickly that it was terrorists.

sir_eccles

I'd take most of these reports of "a neighbors friends milkman said..." with a large grain of salt.

That said, it doesn't matter if they are true or not. Once they have entered the internet and are repeated ad nauseum, it won't be long before someone like Trump repeats it as gospel (see his repeated reference to shooting Muslims with bullets dipped in pigs blood).

BubbleChog

There were only 23 mins between the first plane hitting and the second plane hitting. It still wasn't clear at that point what was going on.

Any stories like this are just BS trying to steer the conversation

Pulaski

17 minutes - 8:46am EDT and 9:03am EDT.

Philk

The False Flag and Conspiracy stories are already circulating