dc koop

I'm probably not understanding the issue too clearly which is my fault I never knew of a transgender person in all the years I attended school, neither did my wife, our daughter nor so far our granddaughters. Like all kids do, everything that happens during their school day is relayed to me on the days I have to pick them up. Little Johnny hasn't made his appearance yet or I would have been the recipient of such news from rather shocked wide eyed kids. Point is are they ready to have an education on transgenderism at that early age? Would they be able to understand it such as a fourteen year old would? Do kids in Grade One thru Four get tutoring on homosexuality and lesbianism? IMO it's far from a good idea to thrust such subjects into the minds of kids at Junior school level. Time enough when they reach Middle School to introduce them to transgenderism and other social issues.

mrken30

Society has changed a lot since the days of Alan Turing, I think for the better on the whole.

Giantaxe

Why are these any different from heterosexuality?

dc koop

Not so much a case of the white supremacist but far more likely as a result of the teachings of western Christianity over a few hundred years. The Indians never got to meet Mother Church until the Pilgrims and the Conquistadors landed on their shores

dc koop

They're not but as far as infants are concerned every person is either a boy or a girl with nothing in between

dc koop

And Alan Turing received an "officlal pardon" from the Queen only very recently sad to say.

Giantaxe

So on that basis, why would you approach "homosexuality and lesbianism" any differently than heterosexuality?

kodokan

I expect transgender children would be introduced like any other congenital difference, disability, mental health issue, etc. Kids with special needs are far more integrated now - my daughter's previous classes have included a couple of kids in calipers or using a wheelchair due to cerebral palsy, one on the autistic spectrum who had allowances made for his outbursts and need to roam the classroom occasionally, one who was a hemophiliac and couldn't do gym; there's a boy in her current class who has a permanent one-to-one aide, although I don't know the reason.

Kids accept tons of stuff that is new and bizarre to them, but just 'is' (says every mother who's ever taken their toddler into the loo and suddenly had to explain menstruation, to stop the child worrying they're bleeding to death).

They don't start second-guessing the implications of complicated social constructs until much later in life. In general, my concerns and sympathies are entirely with the children whose genetics have made them different, and not at all with their peers who may have to briefly make an adjustment to their worldview before running off for snack and outdoor play.

The fact is that children ARE born with both sets of external genitalia, or one internal and one external that don't match, or differing chromosomes to externalities, or that there were differing levels of hormones like testosterone available when their genitalia was being formed and their brain was being formed, etc etc etc - these are realities that we know from science, some of which used to be 'fixed' at birth and secreted away in sealed medical records, and that caused untold devastation to the individuals and families concerned. Should we now lock them away in asylums, so the 'normal' kids and their adults don't have to have a slightly uncomfortable conversation that in reality is about as difficult as explaining to a 5 year old 'where beef comes from'?

Edit: I learnt a lot on this from my Youtubing; I'd recommend it as a way of getting a quick insight into what's shaping up to be the social issue du jour.

kodokan

Explaining homosexuality and bisexuality is a non-issue, at least it was in my house - it's no different for small kids than conversations about how some people find that they strongly attracted to those with blond hair, say.

Of course, if people choose to associate it with sinfulness, or infer that it's somehow wrong and deviant, and then have to go all hand-wringing and uncomfortable about it, that's their concern...

*Curious* Did you not spend much time day to day with your kids when they were small, dc? Parenting was different then, sure, but you seem to worry a little about things that kids actually don't. You can literally tell them anything, in a matter of fact fashion, and they're completely fine with it. Providing the adults don't get all angsty, kids equate 'liking one's own gender as a boyfriend/ girlfriend' with 'liking dogs rather than cats' - just one of those differences between people.

mrken30

I remember growing up we had a gay rabbit. I was very young at the time, so I think kids can learn at an early age.

Nutek

Was this it?

mrken30

No it was white.

Nutek

kodokan

I've just remembered a conversation I had a couple of years ago with an American friend. We were talking about the kids and what they were into these days, and I mentioned about mine enjoying watching Glee, and how her daughter - quite musically inclined - might like it.

'Oh, I expect she would, but <names her kids> can't watch that because they don't yet know about *stage whisper*... gay people'.

I stifled a snort at the notion her then 10 and 12 year old kids didn't already know, and she went on to explain that it was all a bit awkward, because a cousin of hers had recently split up with his wife and was now with his new male partner - something else the kids didn't know about, obviously, but would find out at the next family gathering - and she didn't know how to explain the whole gay thing when she didn't want her kids to judge others and think they were evil, and 'I guess I'll have to have The Conversation this summer, and tell them something like it's not a sin to be gay really, and we should be kind and feel sorry for those people, but that it's not what God wants for them. Although *wistful voice* Cousin DOES seem very happy now, compared to when he was with his wife... I just don't know... *trails off in confusion*'.

Next to THAT sort of mental contortioning and cognitive dissonance, a simple 'Sometimes men have girlfriends, and sometimes they have boyfriends - it's all good, as long as everyone is happy' suddenly seems no bother at all.

Wintersong

I've never understood the "but how do we explain it to the kids?" mentality. It's really not that hard and, to be honest, the longer you wait the harder it becomes. Why? Because their world view in terms of what is considered "normal" becomes more and more entrenched and they become less likely to simply accept each other's differences. Young kids are hard-wired to constantly learn and assimilate new information, so what better time could there possibly be to teach them that love is love, and that sometimes people don't identify with the biological sex their bodies were born with.

It only becomes an issue if adults turn it into one.