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The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Old Jun 19th 2014, 12:07 am
  #46  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
But per both your figures and mine, the ACA has had barely more than an imperceptible impact on the almost 50 million who were uninsured as of 2010. Even if you credit the ACA with all the drop that's still only 2 million, or approximately 4% of the number uninsured in 2010.
2.4 million based on first quarter surveys. Given that those surveys were taken throughout the first quarter and there was a large surge in signups for both ACA policies and Medicaid in March and the first half of April, the true figure is likely many more. We'll see when gallup releases its second quarter survey results. Also, ACA first year signups were exactly what the CBO projected.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 12:10 am
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
But it's unsustainable, so by definition, it's not a good system because it cannot continue. That's the definition of a bad system pretty much.

The only way it will continue is with unworkable tax increases or people paying directly. And because people have gotten used to paying next to nothing out of their own pocket (although in reality it means they pay higher taxes), people will protest.

A user fee to see your GP sounds like a good idea to me, they keep suggesting that one in Alberta. Discourages the hypochondriacs.
But for those with chronic health issues or low income, they may also not be able afford a user fee each time they receive services.

I think monthly premiums is a better route, with low income supplements similar with what BC does, but higher premiums for families who right now get a really good deal.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 1:52 am
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Since its inception NHS use has gone up 12 fold.

I doubt anything of significance will happen to either systems, history suggests that all other things being equal such system degenerate, just the nature of Government.

Interesting watching the VA debacle, and effectively the seeming impossibility of correcting major obvious errors.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 4:55 am
  #49  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by coastieexpat View Post
If the US had a NHS type of service, ( i.e. single payer everybody covered ) I think it would overtake the UK.

However it doesn't ........... So it won't !
The Veterans Administration is the American equivalent of the NHS (9-5, no weekends).
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 4:57 am
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Both have hidden waiting lists?
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 5:00 am
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
The Veterans Administration is the American equivalent of the NHS (9-5, no weekends).
They are both not only single-payer but also single-provider (the government). Medicare, otoh, is single payer but not single provider. When the US talks about single-payer they typically mean the latter rather than the former.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 5:05 am
  #52  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
The US, period, is unsustainable, have a look at the article in my tagline!
Any country that controls it's own currency is not bankrupt. As for your tagline, there is no comparison between the two countries. Canada is very different.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 5:16 am
  #53  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
They are both not only single-payer but also single-provider (the government). Medicare, otoh, is single payer but not single provider. When the US talks about single-payer they typically mean the latter rather than the former.
True.

The problem though (in America) is they think if they get the right medical care one can live forever, so single payer probably wouldn't work. The English are much more fatalistic, so they put up with the waiting lists.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 5:24 am
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Empires rise, Empires fall.

The question is always when, not if.

It is not exactly rocket science to suggest that both the UK and US systems are not sustainable, quite how things will change is another issue.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 6:05 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Both have hidden waiting lists?
Similar tricks are played with appointment types and timings.
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 11:57 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
But for those with chronic health issues or low income, they may also not be able afford a user fee each time they receive services.

I think monthly premiums is a better route, with low income supplements similar with what BC does, but higher premiums for families who right now get a really good deal.
Doubt it if people arent willing to cough up the equivalent of a few packs of fags then one wonders how high they value their health. Practically all countries in the EU and Oz/Nz have user fees to see the GP with an element of rebates so I wonder why the resistance in the UK and how long they can last without one. I suspect it is more to do with electioneering and the negative publicity it would create as opposed to the actual idea.
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 12:30 am
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by notshipman View Post
Doubt it if people arent willing to cough up the equivalent of a few packs of fags then one wonder how high they value their health. ......
Same in the US. If you can afford a packet of fags a day ($5-$10+), and a case or two of beer on a weekend $20-$40, you CAN afford health insurance, you just choose not to do so. In a similar way as Steve_ noted above that US military spending is a backdoor subsidy for European and Asian healthcare, US government funded healthcare is a backdoor subsidy for US tobacco companies and breweries!

Last edited by Pulaski; Jun 20th 2014 at 12:33 am.
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 2:35 am
  #58  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by notshipman View Post
Doubt it if people arent willing to cough up the equivalent of a few packs of fags then one wonders how high they value their health. Practically all countries in the EU and Oz/Nz have user fees to see the GP with an element of rebates so I wonder why the resistance in the UK and how long they can last without one. I suspect it is more to do with electioneering and the negative publicity it would create as opposed to the actual idea.
It's not about valuing health, and not everyone smokes, and when user based fees are used to discourage use its low income folks, and those with chronic health issues that suffer the most as those groups are the least likely to have spare cash to pay a user fee.

Canada isn't perfect, and we do have fees but there are no point of use fees in most provinces (if not all) for basic health services. But we do have monthly premiums in some provinces, such as BC with low income supplements that waives or reduces the monthly premiums. Anyone making 30k or less per year gets a supplement to cover or waive the premiums.

I do think families should pay more however, as families of 3+ get a good deal at 138 per month, vs 125 per month for a couple, and 69.25 for a single.

I am sure the UK could add in a monthly premium, with subsidy for low income, and avoid per use fees.

(I want to be upfront that we don't have nearly as comprehensive of coverage in Canada when compared to the UK and other countries, nor do we have a private option.)
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 5:23 am
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

We just spent an hour today selecting the various healthcare options for wifey's new job. Honestly I think my gambling skills (!) are better off on a slot machine in Vegas!
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
True.

The problem though (in America) is they think if they get the right medical care one can live forever, so single payer probably wouldn't work. The English are much more fatalistic, so they put up with the waiting lists.
I have to say I think every one of your posts is just plain wrong. I don't believe you have any experience of Britain at all.
Originally Posted by GeoffM View Post
We just spent an hour today selecting the various healthcare options for wifey's new job. Honestly I think my gambling skills (!) are better off on a slot machine in Vegas!


Must have spent that long yesterday just trying to change the address on file with my HMO. Gave up in the end, asked doctor to send referrals early so they can be re-directed. We'll see.
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