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The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Old Jun 18th 2014, 9:48 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
But it's unsustainable, so by definition, it's not a good system because it cannot continue. That's the definition of a bad system pretty much.

The only way it will continue is with unworkable tax increases or people paying directly. And because people have gotten used to paying next to nothing out of their own pocket (although in reality it means they pay higher taxes), people will protest.

A user fee to see your GP sounds like a good idea to me, they keep suggesting that one in Alberta. Discourages the hypochondriacs.
The old US system was most definitely unsustainable, let's see how the edifice holds up under ACA.
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 9:52 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
The old US system was most definitely unsustainable, let's see how the edifice holds up under ACA.
The US, period, is unsustainable, have a look at the article in my tagline!
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 9:55 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
The US, period, is unsustainable, have a look at the article in my tagline!
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 10:04 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
The old US system was most definitely unsustainable, let's see how the edifice holds up under ACA.
No better, possibly worse, adding state level liabilities when there is little scope for increasing taxes is pretty much a recipe for making something less sustainable.
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 10:16 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

My view is that the US spends way too much on the military and what it does is basically pay most of the bill for NATO and other countries too and those countries use the money they save on their healthcare systems.

I remember reading an article many years ago where someone had actually worked out mathematically that that was largely the case.

So if the US starts spending more on healthcare, as the ACA requires, e.g. Medicaid, they have less to spend on the military eventually (if in fact they want the ACA to work) and other countries in NATO, Japan etc. will have to spend more of their money on their military (and already are being forced to, thanks to Putin and China), so the net result will be that everyone has equally crappy healthcare. Bear in mind the USMC alone has more personnel and equipment than the entire British armed forces.

You'll know it's happening when all the VA hospitals close and the USG says they'll give veterans subsidies to use regular hospitals.
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 10:31 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
No better, possibly worse, adding state level liabilities when there is little scope for increasing taxes is pretty much a recipe for making something less sustainable.
The federal government initially pays 100% of the cost of the Medicaid expansion and 90% from 4 (?) years onwards. Studies in several of the states that have refused the expansion indicate that the state would actually be better off accepting the expansion, because they are already spending $$$ on indigent care in emergency rooms.
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
So if the US starts spending more on healthcare, as the ACA requires, e.g. Medicaid, they have less to spend on the military eventually (if in fact they want the ACA to work) and other countries in NATO, Japan etc. will have to spend more of their money on their military (and already are being forced to, thanks to Putin and China), so the net result will be that everyone has equally crappy healthcare. Bear in mind the USMC alone has more personnel and equipment than the entire British armed forces.
The CBO projects that the ACA will actually reduce the deficit over the next decade.

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
You'll know it's happening when all the VA hospitals close and the USG says they'll give veterans subsidies to use regular hospitals.
Which is what I think should happen. Really, the only reason that the US has a separate VA system is that so many veterans were essentially uninsurable post combat. Now that the ACA removes the ability of insurance companies to exclude such people, having veterans use regular hospitals makes a lot of sense: just give them a subsidy for 100% of the cost of their insurance. After all, that is what happens in pretty much every other western country.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Jun 18th 2014 at 10:44 pm.
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 11:03 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
The CBO projects that the ACA will actually reduce the deficit over the next decade. ......
But that is based on a number of assumptions, most notably that large numbers of the uninsured sign up for ACA coverage, whereas in fact based on the seven million who signed up for ACA coverage, only 800,000 were previously uninsured, out of approximately 49.6 million IIRC, uninsured as of 2010. In other words, the supposed cost of providing for the uninsured has barely beeen reduced at all!
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 11:07 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
But that is based on a number of assumptions, most notably that large numbers of the uninsured sign up for ACA coverage, whereas in fact based on the seven million who signed up for ACA coverage, only 800,000 were previously uninsured, out of approximately 49.6 million IIRC, uninsured as of 2010. In other words, the supposed cost of providing for the uninsured has barely beeen reduced at all!
Not according to this recent survey:

In U.S., Uninsured Rate Lowest Since 2008

This was a first quarter survey and as explained wouldn't have taken account of most of the late surge in signups.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Jun 18th 2014 at 11:11 pm.
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 11:18 pm
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Arrow Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Not according to this recent survey:

In U.S., Uninsured Rate Lowest Since 2008
Those numbers are consistent with the ones I cited, that the National Census office produced (See Figure 8).. The decline is from almost 50 million uninsured to just over 48 million, which is presumably in part to do with unemployed people getting jobs and people in jobs without insurance getting better jobs, as well as the aforementioned ACA impact of approximately 800k.
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 11:18 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
The US, period, is ......!
But it seems no use for a period, just commas
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 11:23 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Those numbers are consistent with the ones I cited, that the National Census office produced (See Figure 8).. The decline is from almost 50 million uninsured to just over 48 million, which is presumably in part to do with unemployed people getting jobs and people in jobs without insurance getting better jobs, as well as the aforementioned ACA impact of approximately 800k.
Figures that don't go beyond 2012... a link to back up that 800k figure?
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 11:37 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Figures that don't go beyond 2012... a link to back up that 800k figure?
It was a radio news report I heard a few weeks ago, but I can't find a link to it now. ..... Apparently about one third of the states in America have 800,000 uninsured!
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Old Jun 18th 2014, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
It was a radio news report I heard a few weeks ago, but I can't find a link to it now. ..... Apparently about one third of the states in America have 800,000 uninsured!
Very convincing
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Old Jun 19th 2014, 12:02 am
  #45  
 
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Very convincing
But per both your figures and mine, the ACA has had barely more than an imperceptible impact on the almost 50 million who were uninsured as of 2010. Even if you credit the ACA with all the drop that's still only 2 million, or approximately 4% of the number uninsured in 2010.
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