paul1968mcr

Griffin?

Kaffy Mintcake

Based on this logic, do you believe that there are more people who are "bad" in the US then? We have an awfully high murder rate compared to other countries. If the problem isn't the incidence of gun ownership, surely there are more evil people in the US, right?

chartreuse

Oh yes!

chartreuse

I wouldn't know where to start in confirming or refuting that statement. There are so many variable and poorly defined terms as to render it meaningless.

Kaffy Mintcake

I guess what I'm asking you is, if you believe the higher incidence of gun ownership is a complete non-factor, why do you think violent crime is so much higher here?

paul1968mcr

If you look at who it is thats getting shot....usually young males, it's pretty clear alot of it is gang related.

Vermont has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the USA, yet one of the lowest crime rates....stats show increased gun ownership results in lower crime rates, not the other way round.

paul1968mcr

Clearly some subjects of discussion have no place in a civilised society....how long it will remain civilised remains to be seen!

Kaffy Mintcake

I agree that gun violence is certainly prevalent among gangs, very prevalent. That's a major problem, particularly in the past 30 or so years it would seem. Still, there's more to it than just gangs.

"Gun-related homicide is most prevalent among gangs and during the commission of felony crimes. In 1976, the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during arguments was about the same as from gang involvement (about 70 percent), but by 1993, nearly all gang-related homicides involved guns (97 percent), whereas the percentage of gun homicides related to arguments remained relatively constant. The percentage of gang-related homicides caused by guns fell slightly to 94 percent in 2004, but the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during the commission of a felony rose from about 60 percent to 77 percent from 1976 to 2005."

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/...ce/welcome.htm

According to this, while nearly all gang-related homicides involve guns, still, 70% of homicides resulting from arguments are caused by guns. So it's not gangs alone. Food for thought.

paul1968mcr

But the figures are %, of the total number of homicides in the USA what % of those result from domestic arguments which end up in shootings?

There's little doubt the access to firearms in the home makes it easier for the "unstable" to commit murder, though I doubt in the absence of guns some of the murders would not have happened....may have been alittle harder or more messy and physically demanding??

I still maintain private firearm ownership reduces overall crime.

tonrob

I farted earlier on and it sounded like a gun going off. And the smell would have seen off any burgler (at least that's my assumption based on Mrs tonrob's reaction).

If anyone is interested in learning more about home defence, PM me for my new veggie spaghetti bolognese recipe.

Kaffy Mintcake

How many sprouts are included?

tonrob

None, but this stuff seems to do the job...

http://www.lightlife.com/product_det...=gimmeleanbeef

Kaffy Mintcake

None? NONE?!?!??! Sproutboy, you've let us down.

tonrob

I actually hardly eat any sprouts out of season. Makes me look forward to the little darlings even more.

Kaffy Mintcake

Ah, you're a sprout purist then. That I can accept. Carry on, carry on.