scrubbedexpat091

Thanks. I am no lawyer and only know the basics on court system, so why I asked. As a lay person law is like a foreign language.

RoadWarriorFromLP

It's really odd that so many of those who are always banging on about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights can't figure that out.

FlaviusAetius

Unintended consequence of expanding the franchise. The founders envisioned that the electorate would be composed of rich men of substance and learning, such as themselves for example.

MostlyYank

I guess, if you completely ignore everything the founders actually said and did, you could make a case for allowing a group of the appointed for life elite to pass moral judgment on us as a whole outside of law.

Even the Constitutional protections - and grants of authority - are ultimately decided by the people. Otherwise it is not a democracy or a republic - it is a dictatorship or oligarchy or some form thereof.

I used to be progressive until I had read a LOT of history.

Pete

hungryhorace

A political scientist could easily make the case that the U.S is now an oligarchy, not a democracy.

FlaviusAetius

Pete, I agree with you completely, except I was never a progressive.

Understand that comment of mine regarding the Founders was offered as a light-hearted joke.

But that is also why I'm concerned about efforts by the progressives to stuff the ballot boxes with fraudulent votes, whether from dead people, absentee ballots from people who have moved out of the district, people transported by bus from precinct to precinct all waving the same utility bill (same day registration), or registering illegals and green card holders, as each such vote disenfranchises one legitimate voter.

Unfortunately, voter fraud is almost impossible to prove unless the perpetrator is stupid enough to boast about it to a news camera, as some have done. Usually, as in the case of Franken, it is only uncovered months after the election, if ever.

MostlyYank

I'm just talking in general, not responding to any particular comment As Jefferson said (:elbowrib: )

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend."

Which of course was (like just about everything he said) dreamy bs, as he proceeded to rip Adams apart lol.

I have long believed that the experiment has been dead since the civil war, that slavery did it in.

So we were birthed infected with the germ of our own destruction. I wonder if Lincoln suspected or knew that when he called slavery a national sin.

Pete

RoadWarriorFromLP

You need to bone up on the concept of what a bill of rights is.

FlaviusAetius

A political scientist could get you into an interesting debate on that one. For example, was a Communist state like the DDR a democracy? It said it was, and it religiously held elections to the Volkskammer in which choices included the Socialist Unity Party, the Christian Democrats and various farmers' and workers' parties. The only problem was that all the candidates for all the parties were selected by the leadership of the Socialist Unity Party, so in the end virtually every vote in the Volkskammer was essentially unanimous.

In Russia and Ukraine, the oligarchs run the entire economy, but parties exist and "free" elections are held. Are they not also democracies?

[Actually Russia has been described as a vast mineral and commodity extraction racket run by oligarchs who are in bed with politicians, skimming off all the wealth for themselves and their political allies, except for what is needed to keep the extraction business functioning.]

In our country the two main parties are essentially coalitions of special interests; and with each special interest having its own leaders, most of whom are not wealthy. Oligarchs like Soros, Buffet and Bill Gates have influence - and each with far more than ten thousand of us, but it isn't decisive as in Russia or Ukraine. Are these pinhead celebrities, like Gwyneth Paltrow, who host Obama's fundraisers also oligarchs?

Steerpike

You are presenting as fact something that is not proven.

Would you argue that the number of fraudulent votes cast is greater than the number of valid votes eliminated by various voter-ID laws?

RoadWarriorFromLP

The Tea Party is a minority political movement that believes itself to be a majority.

Accordingly, they are utterly baffled when they lose elections. They can't fathom the possibility that they could lose without the system being rigged against them.

MostlyYank

RW, the back story to the Bill of Rights is interesting. It doesn't fit well with those arguing for expanded federal government though. They too can be amended.

I know some tea party types. They're too doctrinaire and isolationist for me for the most part, but whoo boy are they organized and committed. Much more so than my acquaintances on the far left.

Pete

hungryhorace

Russia is a dictatorship by any other guise. The Ukraine is making strides towards democracy, yet still has a long way to go - preserving their own sovereignty is their main worry right now of course.

Re US & Oligarchy: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes - Telegraph

Rusty Chainsaw

America doesn't have a far left (at least nowhere in the political mainstream). You've got centre-right (Dems) and far-right (Repubs). You've got a couple of proper lefties (Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich and maybe a couple of others) but that's it.

Mind you, since the days of New Labour, neither does the UK.

hungryhorace

Do you know what the 'far left' actually is in political discourse out of interest? Or is it just a term you copy from the ignorant morons on the TV that present themselves as political commentators?

For the record, the 'far left' is equalitarianism. How many egalitarians do you know in American politics?