jgf52

Both long-time green card holders; we occasionally visit our immediate family in UK and just paid the £100 for a 6 month tourist visa each time and submitted ourselves to all the other extraordinarily arduous procedures involved. US citizens get free entry but US permanent residents don't, maybe because we're generally less lucrative visitors, and/or are more likely to be exploiting the NHS since such a large proportion of green cards are through relatives, rather than employment like ours? Won't these policies mean they lose us all to Schengen instead (like they have with us)? Or maybe everyone else in our position just uses the free marriage visa? It's all very bemusing would love to know if anyone can help rationalize it all. Thanks

tht

Not sure what your asking? I assume whatever your citizenship is, it is not eligible for visa free travel to the UK or US?

Not sure how a green card would help you in the UK. I guess if your citizenship is from a country with high risk of an overstay it could be used to prove you have ties to the US.

Before Brexit I had Indian Citizen employees on a work visa in London… they had to apply for a visa to visit Europe… even that was hard and they would generally be issued single entry visas issued for a week or 2 duration despite having a UK work visa.

I believe visa policies are often reciprocal in terms of fees and visa free travel is based on things like risk of overstay.

Pulaski

As per Tht, I'm not sure what you're asking. All the countries I know of apply their respective visitor visa/ no visa reqd rules based on citizenship/ passport, not on any third country residency visa(s) the visitor holds. So you are, apparently, trying to rationalize your situation by bringing in a lot of entirely irrelevant considerations.

So, if you are, for example, a Pakistani and you want to travel to the UK as a visitor, then the rules for citizens of Pakistan apply wholly and entirely irrespective of any visa(s) you hold to live/work in other country(ies).

Unless/until you acquire citizenship of a country of which the citizens are allowed visa-free visits to the UK, or the UK drops visa requirements for the only country you are a citizen of, that will remain your situation.

SanDiegogirl

There are some citizens who are allowed to visit the UK without a visa - US citizens are in this category.

In addition, a green card holder can also visit the UK without a visa if a citizen of a country which is on the visa free list. i.e a Green card holder in the US with, say, French citizenship, can visit the UK without a visa.

Whether you required a visitor visa for the UK depends on your nationality/citizenship - nothing to do with being a Green card holder.

What's a free marriage visa and how would something like this be relevant?

Pulaski

Under this scenario the green card is irrelevant - in your example a French citizen can visit the UK irrespective of whether he/she has a green card, having a green card neither adds to nor subtracts from the right of a French citizen to visit the UK without obtaining a visa.

SanDiegogirl

Yes, I realise this.

The OP inferred that a Green card holder did not have the same 'rights' to visiting the UK as a US citizen - 'US citizens get free entry but US permanent residents don't, maybe because we're generally less lucrative visitors, and/or are more likely to be exploiting the NHS etc' -.

My example shows that being a Green card holder has nothing to do with being able to visit the UK without having to obtain a visa. It's all down to your nationality/citizenship

Maybe a better example would be:

A French citizen, being a green card holder in the US, would NOT need a visitor visa for the UK
An Albanian citizen, being a green card holder in the US, WOULD need a visitor visa for the UK

tht

Since people can have multiple citizenships it’s is really down to the passport they will use to checkin/present at the UK border.

And for the OP, I would note that that unless something has changed USC have to use the “rest of the world” line when they arrive on in the UK so they also don’t get any special treatment…

christmasoompa

Just as having a green card has no bearing on needing a visitor visa for the UK or not, it also has no bearing on eligibility for free NHS treatment - both a USC, and a green card holder would have to pay if they’re not resident in the UK. NHS eligibility isn’t based on citizenship.

jgf52

thanks everyone for your replies. Reducing the matter to residency being irrelevant after citizenship doesn't make sense because the Surinder Singh route for example shows residency of a seemingly random country like Switzerland or Norway can matter over citizenship but our primary confusion is that a long-term spouse of a British national can't seem to visit easily (let alone settle!) even though a marriage visa for example would seem to allow a spouse of any nationality to come visit for a marriage ceremony.

I think tht gets it "I guess if your citizenship is from a country with high risk of an overstay it could be used to prove you have ties to the US."...do people ever successfully claim this at the border? It seems obvious to me (my wife is perhaps more diplomatic) that anyone with a GC would never want to overstay. Maybe US citizens are already using the NHS and disappearing without paying so they're just managing the flow..?

Anyway would love to hear from others in our position, how you think about it and if you just switch to Schengen instead or maybe use another avenue to UK we missed. Thanks

Pulaski

Surinder Singh was (1) about residency visas, not visitors visas, and (2) specific to the rules on visas and freedom of movement within the EFTA (EU + Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, and Iceland, IIRC - they're only "seemingly random countries" if you don't understand EFTA and its role in the development of the freedom of movement in Europe), so for two different reasons does not apply to your situation. ..... and (2) no longer applies to anyone, because of Brexit.

Also, the UK isn't in the Schengen zone, and never was, so I am not sure how it relates to whatever it is that you're complaining about.

Nobody cares, especially not the British government, that "it is obvious to you that anyone with a GC would never want to overstay", because, as advised previously, having a US green card has no bearing on whether or not someone needs a visa to visit the UK.

SanDiegogirl

but our primary confusion is that a long-term spouse of a British national can't seem to visit easily (let alone settle!) even though a marriage visa for example would seem to allow a spouse of any nationality to come visit for a marriage ceremony.

- A long term spouse of a British citizen, and is a citizen of a country which is NOT on the visa free list of countries, would have to apply for a visitor visa to visit the UK. This is regardless of where they were currently living, and what other visas or immigration status they held in this 3rd country.
- A long term spouse of a British citizen and who is a citizen of a country which is ON the list of visa free countries, can visit the UK easily without any other documentation except their current passport.
- A long term spouse of a British citizen can certainly settle in the UK if they have been sponsored by their Brit partner and subsequently lived in the UK for 5 years.
- NO-ONE would apply for a marriage visitor visa if only wishing to visit, ie. as a tourist. to the UK. A marriage visitor visa is for someone who is intending to marry in the UK and requires all the relevant proof of intending wedding.

What is your situation that is causing you such confusion?

jgf52

Occam's Razor would suggest there was simply never any contemplation of a program to encourage GCs to visit, but being numbered in the millions, lucrative and with equal standing at US borders, it seems more likely they considered and rejected the idea for some reason...?

I just found out the cost/terms/process is all the same as the tourist visa so that makes more sense now. Except now I'm starting to wonder why the marriage visitor visa exists at all...(please no more quote replies referring to the existence of a rule as explanation! )

this basically remains my main confusion; but now I think about it I guess there are probably only a few thousand like us so it's easier to understand why this is just the way it is. Spouse kept suggesting I check for an alternative UK visa channel since it didn't make sense we kept choosing the much cheaper Schengen tourist visa despite our ties to the UK. I guess I was hoping for more insight into the spirit of the law but maybe there just isn't much spirit there

SanDiegogirl

Except now I'm starting to wonder why the marriage visitor visa exists at all ....


Oh for Pete's sake I told you why a few posts ago.... for those people who want to marry in the UK and then leave the UK (they don't want to live there).

You can't marry in the UK on a visitor visa......

Nutmegger

As others have explained, your green card has one function, it indicates to US immigration officials that you are permitted to enter and reside in the US. To every other country you wish to enter, the only thing that matters is the citizenship indicated by the passport you carry.

Pulaski

You're looking for a reason or connection that doesn't exist. From the perspective of the British government, green card holders are a group that isn't recognized. Being a green card holder simply isn't relevant. You might as well ask why the British government doesn't have a program to attract left-handed visitors or visitors born in a leap year?
So people can travel to the UK to get married. I'm not sure what more you're looking for here?