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Let's talk about cars

Let's talk about cars

Old Nov 12th 2022, 7:07 am
  #7951  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by SpoogleDrummer
It's probably fake noise pumped into the car, possibly outside too.
Originally Posted by Steerpike
I happened to hear a Porsche EV a few months ago in a parking lot. As many are aware, recent laws require EV's to 'make noise' at lower speeds. Each EV producer uses slightly different sounds; my Toyota hybrid makes a 'space-ship' sound. The Porsche had a decidedly different sound, obviously they wanted it to sound more 'macho'. The sound from my car is louder in reverse than forward, but stays on (in forward) until I reach about 25 mph. The car in the movie clip, assuming it's an EV, is definitely moving at a slow speed so it's feasible that this explains the weird sound.
Also, my nephew is a car fanatic and races cars on the weekend. He tells me his current car (some form of BMW) - an ICE car - has fake engine noise pumped INSIDE the cabin because the real engine is too quiet...
So fake engine noise is actually a thing then. I initially thought spoogle meant the TV show had added it.
There are definite similarities with that one in the clip, but maybe it's a little higher in pitch than the one in Deadwind.

But fake engine noise because the real engine is too quiet? Bloody hell. Soon there will be a pollution free car but they'll have it release something smokey and smelly to make it seem more like a car.
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 7:20 am
  #7952  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by BristolUK
So fake engine noise is actually a thing then. I initially thought spoogle meant the TV show had added it.
There are definite similarities with that one in the clip, but maybe it's a little higher in pitch than the one in Deadwind.

But fake engine noise because the real engine is too quiet? Bloody hell. Soon there will be a pollution free car but they'll have it release something smokey and smelly to make it seem more like a car.
Below 20 (?) mph fake engine noise is a legal requirement here for electric vehicles (and hybrids when the gas engine is not running). Silent moving vehicles can be a hazard for pedestrians, particularly on parking lots.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Nov 12th 2022 at 7:22 am.
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 7:43 am
  #7953  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Below 20 (?) mph fake engine noise is a legal requirement here for electric vehicles (and hybrids when the gas engine is not running). Silent moving vehicles can be a hazard for pedestrians, particularly on parking lots.
My Volt has a special 'Toot, toot' pedestrian horn because its so quiet.
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 7:50 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
18% of new car sales in California are zero-emission vehicles (which, bizarrely, includes plugin-hybrids). That's by far the highest percentage for a US state. By comparison, over 75% of new car sales in Norway are electric.
Wow, that's a huge number! I didn't expect that many.

Seems like, overall in Europe the percentage of EV sales is 21% for the current year ("Last month’s plugin vehicle share of the overall European auto market was 24% (16% full electrics/BEVs), pulling the 2022 plugin vehicle (PEV) share to 21% (12% for BEVs alone).").

So Norway seems well ahead of the curve. I don't know anything about Norway's 'housing stock'; how are all these plugin buyers managing to charge their cars? Is there a great infrastructure at public spots like grocery stores, office complexes, etc? Or do many people have a garage or private parking space in Norway?

Last edited by Steerpike; Nov 12th 2022 at 7:52 am.
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 8:00 am
  #7955  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by BristolUK
So fake engine noise is actually a thing then....

But fake engine noise because the real engine is too quiet? Bloody hell. Soon there will be a pollution free car but they'll have it release something smokey and smelly to make it seem more like a car.
Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Below 20 (?) mph fake engine noise is a legal requirement here for electric vehicles (and hybrids when the gas engine is not running). Silent moving vehicles can be a hazard for pedestrians, particularly on parking lots.
There's two things going on in the market. One is a legal requirement for 'noise' to be generated OUTSIDE the vehicle at low speeds for pedestrian safety. My car has a small speaker at the front that is fed a weird 'space ship' sound when under ~20 mph. I absolutely hate it, because in my community the speed limit is 25 mph and has a bunch of stop signs, so I'm literally going above and below 20 all the time as I get to/from my home. I wouldn't mind if it just came on and stayed on (my brain would tune it out) but it's on/off/on/off all the time! But this noise is not meant to be like an engine - it's just 'pay attention' noise.

The other thing going on is many performance cars are now so quiet that the driver is not getting enough 'audible feedback' so they are adding fake 'engine noise' to the INSIDE of the car, and this is some sort of 'fake engine noise'. Thankfully this is not audible outside the car.
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 8:50 am
  #7956  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Below 20 (?) mph fake engine noise is a legal requirement here for electric vehicles (and hybrids when the gas engine is not running). Silent moving vehicles can be a hazard for pedestrians, particularly on parking lots.
Originally Posted by Steerpike
There's two things going on in the market. One is a legal requirement for 'noise' to be generated OUTSIDE the vehicle at low speeds for pedestrian safety...it's just 'pay attention' noise.
Well thanks for the information
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 9:13 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
"Let's talk about ... " ?
Lets talk about all things Musky and not ...
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 2:09 pm
  #7958  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by BristolUK
There are two references. In the third season it's a Porsche - that's when I noticed it.
Yeah but I ruled out it being a 20 year old BMW when you mentioned push button start as although the technology has been around for a while I don't think it was a particularly common feature even in BMWs back then.
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Old Nov 12th 2022, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Wow, that's a huge number! I didn't expect that many.

Seems like, overall in Europe the percentage of EV sales is 21% for the current year ("Last month’s plugin vehicle share of the overall European auto market was 24% (16% full electrics/BEVs), pulling the 2022 plugin vehicle (PEV) share to 21% (12% for BEVs alone).").

So Norway seems well ahead of the curve. I don't know anything about Norway's 'housing stock'; how are all these plugin buyers managing to charge their cars? Is there a great infrastructure at public spots like grocery stores, office complexes, etc? Or do many people have a garage or private parking space in Norway?
My plug-in has done about 3,000 miles on gas and 17k on electric. So I know they are not zero emission, it is much better than doing 20k on gas. We have started to use public charging stations when gas is over $4/gallon

We had to have a gas rental car, I had forgotten how much the engine warms up the garage compared to an EV
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Old Nov 13th 2022, 1:45 pm
  #7960  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Anyway, I'm off cars. Mentioned my Ford Ecosport a while back, and how I'd discovered (after we'd bought it) the multiple known problems with the Powershift DPS6 auto transmission. It shit itself the other day, clutch has gone. 2016 model and only 56,000km on the odometer. Ford dealership said Ford won't pay for the fix so have spent a very pleasant 2 weeks arguing the toss with Ford Australia's 'Customer Relationship Consultants'. They've already been fined $10,000,000 by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, for 'unconscionable conduct' towards their customers but have they learned? No they f**cking have not.

Class action may finally be due for judgement in March 2023 - it was commenced in 2017 We'll probably get bugger all anyway, if the judgement of the US class action is anything to go by.

There's ample, verified evidence that Ford knew of the transmission problems before the vehicles went into production. I hate every one of the mofos.
Originally Posted by zzrmark
Feel for you, that's the same shitty transmission that's in our Focus. Luckily US owners had already finished hauling Ford over the coals when we bought without knowing of the problem. So, we get 3 free 'fixes' and then they start paying us every time it needs another, ideally the missus needs to get it seen to for the second time but it's a pain in the butt being without her car and it still runs, if not a little rough. I keep telling her that it's going to inconvenience her more if she doesn't get it done while it's still running and she can determine just when the inconvenience occurs.
Ford were still putting that transmission into motors after they settled the US case. I know some Mustangs built afterwards were fitted with that tranny.
Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Sorry that you and your wife have the same lemon transmission problems. I can understand her not wanting to be without the car, but you're right that it's best to get it 'fixed' (ha!) sooner rather than later.

The clutch forks in our Ecosport suddenly and spectacularly failed (on a major highway, while I was driving), the Ford dealership has said the entire clutch needs replacing. To date (3 weeks now) Ford Australia are still refusing to pay for the necessary repairs - the extended 5 year clutch warranty ended last year and they've said that the TCM (which has a 10 year extended warranty) didn't cause the failure.

Can I ask what component of your Focus transmission failed? I'm glad that at least the court battle with Ford US is over, and that you can get the inevitable repairs done without too much fuss.
Well bugger me, Ford Australia have agreed to pay for the clutch replacement.
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Old Nov 13th 2022, 3:01 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Got an offer I couldn’t refuse on the Mustang Ecoboost. Basically offered what I paid for it 4 years ago, so at the weekend, it get traded in for the mustang GT. I figured it was now or never for the V8. I plan to keep it until Gavin Newsom comes knocking at my door demanding the keys before forcing me into an EV!
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Old Nov 14th 2022, 3:01 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by mrken30
My plug-in has done about 3,000 miles on gas and 17k on electric. So I know they are not zero emission, it is much better than doing 20k on gas. We have started to use public charging stations when gas is over $4/gallon

We had to have a gas rental car, I had forgotten how much the engine warms up the garage compared to an EV
I think plug-in hybrids are a great idea! They are essentially EVs with a backup ICE (unlike 'traditional' hybrids, which are really ICE vehicles with extra bits to recover energy from braking and coasting). I just bought a hybrid last year and a 'plug-in' option wasn't available (and the plug-ins in the Toyota lineup were commanding way over sticker even back then). So I guess I'll stick with what I've got unless a terrific opportunity avails itself. Ironically, my driving pattern has changed now such that I'd be a perfect candidate for a plug-in - I drive mainly short journeys now, which would always fit within the battery range. When I bought the hybrid last year, I was driving 750 miles between AZ and CA every month, but now I've sold the AZ place so no more 'commuting' ! I don't have a garage for my car, but there are chargers at the gym I go to, so I could charge it up easily. I'm still anticipate the occasional long journey, though, so having the 'ICE' available would be very reassuring.
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Old Nov 14th 2022, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
I think plug-in hybrids are a great idea! They are essentially EVs with a backup ICE (unlike 'traditional' hybrids, which are really ICE vehicles with extra bits to recover energy from braking and coasting). I just bought a hybrid last year and a 'plug-in' option wasn't available (and the plug-ins in the Toyota lineup were commanding way over sticker even back then). So I guess I'll stick with what I've got unless a terrific opportunity avails itself. Ironically, my driving pattern has changed now such that I'd be a perfect candidate for a plug-in - I drive mainly short journeys now, which would always fit within the battery range. When I bought the hybrid last year, I was driving 750 miles between AZ and CA every month, but now I've sold the AZ place so no more 'commuting' ! I don't have a garage for my car, but there are chargers at the gym I go to, so I could charge it up easily. I'm still anticipate the occasional long journey, though, so having the 'ICE' available would be very reassuring.
I went through similar reasoning, thinking initially I’d get a plug-in hybrid. But plug-ins by definition need a much bigger battery than a hybrid and, because they also have an ICE, that battery must go elsewhere than under the hood. We were looking for an SUV we could sleep in with the back seats folded down. So that requires a flat floor area. When we bought the available plugins all took space in the cargo area for their battery. Maybe that’s changed now but that was my reasoning for ending up with a regular hybrid. If I do buy in the future it’ll be an all electric vehicle that fits the above parameters. I think there’s now a Volkswagen vehicle that does.
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Old Nov 15th 2022, 12:31 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Well bugger me, Ford Australia have agreed to pay for the clutch replacement.


Sorry for delay, only just opened this thread after my last reply. I can't remember what the stealership said was the problem but I don't think I took much notice at the time. I have it in my mind that the springs on a clutch plate failed. If it were a 'proper' manual transmission I'd be saying that is exactly where the current judder is coming from as well. The transmission was a botch from the outset and will never work properly, there is no permanent fix because this is a design fault.
Ford US have a buy back program, which was initiated before we bought our heap. It begs the question why were dealerships still allowed to shift this junk off their forecourts and onto unsuspecting buyers?
My missus is hankering after a Maverick, so mebbe someone will cut her deal, but I doubt it. Personally I think she needs to ditch her love affair with Ford and go over to Honda or Toyota. Her last car, which was also her first non-truck, was an Accord and that was a lovely piece of engineering, we would still have owned that vehicle if I'd had my way...

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Old Nov 15th 2022, 4:57 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by zzrmark


Sorry for delay, only just opened this thread after my last reply. I can't remember what the stealership said was the problem but I don't think I took much notice at the time. I have it in my mind that the springs on a clutch plate failed. If it were a 'proper' manual transmission I'd be saying that is exactly where the current judder is coming from as well. The transmission was a botch from the outset and will never work properly, there is no permanent fix because this is a design fault.
Ford US have a buy back program, which was initiated before we bought our heap. It begs the question why were dealerships still allowed to shift this junk off their forecourts and onto unsuspecting buyers?
My missus is hankering after a Maverick, so mebbe someone will cut her deal, but I doubt it. Personally I think she needs to ditch her love affair with Ford and go over to Honda or Toyota. Her last car, which was also her first non-truck, was an Accord and that was a lovely piece of engineering, we would still have owned that vehicle if I'd had my way...
I like 'stealership' They're still selling used Fords with the same dodgy transmission in Australia. Where I live a dealership that calls itself 'the most trusted in Perth' has an Ecosport for sale - a year older than mine, a model lower and nearly twice the kilometres on the clock, for $17,999. I feel like standing next to it with a picket sign saying NOT WORTH TWO KNOBS OF DONKEY SHIT.

I with you re ditching Ford. They put that transmission into production against the advice of their own engineers and have treated their customers abysmally. We're looking at getting a Honda CR-V, my husband cheerfully told me that 'it will see us out'. I reminded him that I'm 10 years younger that him


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