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Let's talk about cars

Let's talk about cars

Old Nov 7th 2022, 1:38 pm
  #7921  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Sorry, I know this thread is in the US forum, but incredibly there is only one car thread on BE ....
Yeah, crazy, isn't it. That said, there's only a few of us here in the US who post regularly on this thread, so, honestly, cars are more of niche interest than us petrol/ gear heads would like to believe.
.... Anyway, since I know nothing at all about cars other than how to check the fluid levels, I plan to get a mechanical check of any car before I buy (used). Is getting said check from the RAC or AA in any way any better/more reliable than getting it from some other company?
Honestly, I doubt it and personally I would probably just take a car to a franchise dealer for the brand of vehicle you're buying and ask them to do a complete service check without an oil change, and to "do no work" (if you don't yet own it), not least because they will know about any recalls and other repair notices that may not have been taken care of on the vehicle. as such notices are not always circulated outside the company's own franchise network. .... Which is what I did when I bought my BMW last year - the shop just did a complete check for services issues, wear and damage.
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Old Nov 7th 2022, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Yeah, crazy, isn't it. That said, there's only a few of us here in the US who post regularly on this thread, so, honestly, cars are more of niche interest than us petrol/ gear heads would like to believe.

Honestly, I doubt it and personally I would probably just take a car to a franchise dealer for the brand of vehicle you're buying and ask them to do a complete service check without an oil change, and to "do no work" (if you don't yet own it), not least because they will know about any recalls and other repair notices that may not have been taken care of on the vehicle. as such notices are not always circulated outside the company's own franchise network. .... Which is what I did when I bought my BMW last year - the shop just did a complete check for services issues, wear and damage.

Useful idea, thanks.

The potential car is in Tooting
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Old Nov 7th 2022, 1:53 pm
  #7923  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Useful idea, thanks.
The potential car is in Tooting
I hope it has more than three wheels!
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Old Nov 7th 2022, 2:19 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
I hope it has more than three wheels!

Hence the mechanical check
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Old Nov 10th 2022, 10:40 am
  #7925  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

I don't know one car from another but I am intrigued by the sound of a car in the Finnish TV show Deadwind/Karppi.

According to IMDB it's a BMW E31 8-series coupe.

Can someone explain - in non technical terms - why that car sounds like it does when it starts and drives off. I've never heard any other car like it.
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Old Nov 10th 2022, 8:32 pm
  #7926  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I don't know one car from another but I am intrigued by the sound of a car in the Finnish TV show Deadwind/Karppi.

According to IMDB it's a BMW E31 8-series coupe.

Can someone explain - in non technical terms - why that car sounds like it does when it starts and drives off. I've never heard any other car like it.
How does it sound to you? .... It is possible that the sound could be a pure fiction applied in post-production by the studio, but assuming it is the actual sound of the engine that you're hearing, the only unusual, though far from unique sound it would be making is that of a V12 (12 cylinder) engine.

A large majority of cars made over the past 70 years, especially outside north America, have 4 cylinders, with larger non-US vehicles commonly having 6 cylinder engines - in fact historically many Jags and Aston Martin's, as well as BMWs had six cylinder engines. In North America, while many smaller cars had 4 cylinder engines, 6 cylinders were quite common, but for large cars made in the US from the 50's until the 90's V8s were very common, whether sporty Mustangs and Corvettes, or bulky Lincolns and Cadillacs. Trucks were a bit late to the V8 party, with Ford only switching from 6 cylinders in their trucks to mostly V8s about 25 years ago.

In thr UK, Range Rovers, some Land Rovers, and larger Rover cars, mostly in the 70's. Had a V8 engine after Rover cars purchased the design and production rights from Buick in the US. Bizarrely, in the crazy world of British Leyland, Triumph decided to develop it's own V8 shortly after Rover, under the same British Leyland umbrella as Triumph, had recently bought the rights to the Buick V8. The Triumph V8, originally installed in the Triumph Stag, was an unmitigated disaster!

V12s are much rarer, being largely the preserve of high end Daimler-Jags, Mercedes and Ferraris until the 1990s, when BMW developed a V12, and Aston Martin, then under Ford's ownership, developed a V12 engine, by literally casting the engine block from 2 x V6 Ford engines; this was the first V12 Aston Martin had ever made.

So far as 4 cylinder engines go, the sound is "ordinary", not remarkable. Six cylinders engines are smoother, have more of a purr, as unlike 4 cylinder engines, there is _always_ at least one cylinder producing power. V8's have a distinctive burbling sound - it's what makes many Mustangs sound so distinctive; many Cameros and a few others have a watered-down version of the V8 burble, even my own BMW which has a V8 has a velvety smooth version of "the V8 burble". The burble is apparently caused by the unusual design of the exhaust system for V8 engines, where the two halves (4 cylinders each) of a V8 engine has it own exhaust pipe running to the rear of the vehicle, but someone discovered back in the 1960's that you could gain a few more horsepower by linking the two exhaust pipes in an X-shape under the car.

I am not sure I have ever heard enough V12s to describe their distinctive engine sound, however the more cylinders there are, generally the smaller each cylinder is, and the faster the engine revs, so the engine sound for V12 engines should be smooth but quite high-pitched for a large engine.

Last edited by Pulaski; Nov 10th 2022 at 8:48 pm.
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Old Nov 10th 2022, 9:41 pm
  #7927  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I don't know one car from another but I am intrigued by the sound of a car in the Finnish TV show Deadwind/Karppi.

According to IMDB it's a BMW E31 8-series coupe.

Can someone explain - in non technical terms - why that car sounds like it does when it starts and drives off. I've never heard any other car like it.
Ha! I just said the same thing last night. It's hard to describe but I've never heard a car sound like that either.

Now if it had been a motorcycle I might have an answer
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Old Nov 10th 2022, 9:48 pm
  #7928  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
How does it sound to you?
Well "powerful" mainly and quite sudden. But not in a noisy way, no revving up, and nothing like when two cars are side by side (in the movies) with each driver trying to outdo the other in advance of the lights changing.

A guy at work (decades ago) used to drive something that had Overdrive. A switch on the dashboard. He'd flick it and it would be a bit like the SS Enterprise going into warp drive. When the detective in this show gets in, he starts up (and in one scene a button does it) and as the car pulls away it reminds me of that overdrive switch.



And now it seems that IMDB link might refer to a car from an earlier season. I found this.
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Old Nov 11th 2022, 12:40 am
  #7929  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Well "powerful" mainly and quite sudden. But not in a noisy way, no revving up, and nothing like when two cars are side by side (in the movies) with each driver trying to outdo the other in advance of the lights changing.

A guy at work (decades ago) used to drive something that had Overdrive. A switch on the dashboard. He'd flick it and it would be a bit like the SS Enterprise going into warp drive. When the detective in this show gets in, he starts up (and in one scene a button does it) and as the car pulls away it reminds me of that overdrive switch.



And now it seems that IMDB link might refer to a car from an earlier season. I found this.
OK, well I couldn't find any clips on YouTube of the BMW as it appears in the TV show, but I did find this video of the sound of a BMW 8 series V12.
And what I hear is lots of cylinders - if you compare an engine and it's pistons to music, where every one rotation of the crank shaft (the thing that turns oscillations of the pistons to rotational motion for the drive shaft, which takes the movement from the engine and conveys it towards the wheels) is one bar of a musical score, then a 4 cylinder engine has 4 beats to the bar, so each beat has fairly good separation, but a V8 has 8 beats to the bar, and a V12 has 12 beats to the bar, so there are a lot more beats to the bar, the beats are jammed close together, masking the quiet sounds, and providing a rapid series of the louder part of the sounds of pistons oscillating. .... This isn't a perfect analogy - at a given speed a larger, more powerful engine might actually rotate slower - in the music analogy the bars are longer. So Mrs P's Accord does about 3,000 RPM at 80mph, whereas my Mustang does about 2,000RPM at the same speed*...... unless I change to a lower gear, which makes things a LOT louder!

* Incidentally, this is why cars with larger engines aren't necessarily gas guzzlers - my Ford Sierra 1.6 got around 32 UKmpg, my Alfa 164 3.0 got about 30 UKmpg, and my Mustang GT 4.6 gets around 29 UKmpg, despite having almost three times the engine capacity of my old Sierra.

Last edited by Pulaski; Nov 11th 2022 at 12:55 am.
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Old Nov 11th 2022, 12:54 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Well "powerful" mainly and quite sudden. But not in a noisy way, no revving up, and nothing like when two cars are side by side (in the movies) with each driver trying to outdo the other in advance of the lights changing.

A guy at work (decades ago) used to drive something that had Overdrive. A switch on the dashboard. He'd flick it and it would be a bit like the SS Enterprise going into warp drive. When the detective in this show gets in, he starts up (and in one scene a button does it) and as the car pulls away it reminds me of that overdrive switch.



And now it seems that IMDB link might refer to a car from an earlier season. I found this.
Originally Posted by Pulaski
OK, well I couldn't find any clips on YouTube of the BMW as it appears in the TV show, but I did find this video of the sound of a BMW 8 series V12.
https://youtu.be/3KzE35H5oRo
And what I hear is lots of cylinders - if you compare an engine and it's pistons to music, where every one rotation of the crank shaft (the thing that turns oscillations of the pistons to rotational motion for the drive shaft (which takes the movement from the engine and conveys it towards the wheels) is one bar of sheet music, then a 4 cylinder engine has 4 beats to the bar, so each beat has fairly good separation, but a V8 has 8 beats to the bar, and a V12 has 12 beats to the bar, so there is a lot more going on, the beats are jammed close together, masking the quiet sounds, and providing a rapid series of the louder sounds. .... This isn't a perfect analogy - at a given speed a larger, more powerful engine might actually rotate slower - in the music analogy the bars are longer. So Mrs P's Accord does about 3,000 RPM at 80mph, whereas my Mustang does about 2,000RPM at the same speed*...... unless I change to a lower gear, which makes things a LOT louder!

* Incidentally, this is why cars with larger engines aren't necessarily gas guzzlers - my Ford Sierra 1.6 got around 32 UKmpg, my Alfa 164 3.0 got about 30 UKmpg, and my Mustang GT 4.6 gets around 29 UKmpg, despite having almost three times the engine capacity of my old Sierra.
It's definitely a Porsche. Watching episode 7 and there is a view of the back of the car.
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Old Nov 11th 2022, 1:03 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Jolly Good
It's definitely a Porsche. Watching episode 7 and there is a view of the back of the car.
Ok, well Porsches [1] have boxer engines, effectively a V engine flattened out to 180°, so half the pistons are on one side moving back and forth in a mirror image to the pistons on the other side of the engine. The crank shaft is in the middle. And [2] a lot of Porsches have turbos, which enables the engine to accelerate more quickly, giving a Porsche engine a metallic fluttering sound - which might be due in part to [3] how the manufacturer designed the exhaust system - performance car manufacturers often design their cars' exhausts to sound a certain way.
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Old Nov 11th 2022, 1:15 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Ok, well Porsches [1] have boxer engines, effectively a V engine flattened out to 180°, so half the pistons are on one side moving back and forth in a mirror image to the pistons on the other side of the engine. The crank shaft is in the middle. And [2] a lot of Porsches have turbos, which enables the engine to accelerate more quickly, giving a Porsche engine a metallic fluttering sound - which might be due in part to [3] how the manufacturer designed the exhaust system - performance car manufacturers often design their cars' exhausts to sound a certain way.
It actually sounds like the Bat-Mobile to me
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Old Nov 11th 2022, 11:46 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Anyway, I'm off cars. Mentioned my Ford Ecosport a while back, and how I'd discovered (after we'd bought it) the multiple known problems with the Powershift DPS6 auto transmission. It shit itself the other day, clutch has gone. 2016 model and only 56,000km on the odometer. Ford dealership said Ford won't pay for the fix so have spent a very pleasant 2 weeks arguing the toss with Ford Australia's 'Customer Relationship Consultants'. They've already been fined $10,000,000 by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, for 'unconscionable conduct' towards their customers but have they learned? No they f**cking have not.

Class action may finally be due for judgement in March 2023 - it was commenced in 2017 We'll probably get bugger all anyway, if the judgement of the US class action is anything to go by.

There's ample, verified evidence that Ford knew of the transmission problems before the vehicles went into production. I hate every one of the mofos.
Feel for you, that's the same shitty transmission that's in our Focus. Luckily US owners had already finished hauling Ford over the coals when we bought without knowing of the problem. So, we get 3 free 'fixes' and then they start paying us every time it needs another, ideally the missus needs to get it seen to for the second time but it's a pain in the butt being without her car and it still runs, if not a little rough. I keep telling her that it's going to inconvenience her more if she doesn't get it done while it's still running and she can determine just when the inconvenience occurs.
Ford were still putting that transmission into motors after they settled the US case. I know some Mustangs built afterwards were fitted with that tranny.
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Old Nov 11th 2022, 12:50 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by zzrmark
Feel for you, that's the same shitty transmission that's in our Focus. Luckily US owners had already finished hauling Ford over the coals when we bought without knowing of the problem. So, we get 3 free 'fixes' and then they start paying us every time it needs another, ideally the missus needs to get it seen to for the second time but it's a pain in the butt being without her car and it still runs, if not a little rough. I keep telling her that it's going to inconvenience her more if she doesn't get it done while it's still running and she can determine just when the inconvenience occurs.
Ford were still putting that transmission into motors after they settled the US case. I know some Mustangs built afterwards were fitted with that tranny.
Sorry that you and your wife have the same lemon transmission problems. I can understand her not wanting to be without the car, but you're right that it's best to get it 'fixed' (ha!) sooner rather than later.

The clutch forks in our Ecosport suddenly and spectacularly failed (on a major highway, while I was driving), the Ford dealership has said the entire clutch needs replacing. To date (3 weeks now) Ford Australia are still refusing to pay for the necessary repairs - the extended 5 year clutch warranty ended last year and they've said that the TCM (which has a 10 year extended warranty) didn't cause the failure.

Can I ask what component of your Focus transmission failed? I'm glad that at least the court battle with Ford US is over, and that you can get the inevitable repairs done without too much fuss.



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Old Nov 11th 2022, 1:31 pm
  #7935  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
OK, well I couldn't find any clips on YouTube of the BMW as it appears in the TV show, but I did find this video of the sound of a BMW 8 series V12.
That just sounds like a car to me.
Originally Posted by Jolly Good
It actually sounds like the Bat-Mobile to me
Which version?

Okay, so the show is on Netflix and I have found a sound sample in Season 3, episode 6 just after 11 minutes.
If no Netflix subscription you can listen here
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