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Let's talk about cars

Let's talk about cars

Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:36 am
  #181  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Bink
Why isn't Fisker in the same category as Tesla? I would have said that it was.
Tesla is a better managed company, and has done a better job with the product. The company does deserve credit for just not producing vaporware, while Fisker was so caught up with design that he forgot about the little things, such as engineering.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:37 am
  #182  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by dakota44
Daewoo?????????? Little more than gutless death traps. Crap in and crap out. Of course GM bought them and re-badged some real shit with the Chevy and Pontiac nameplates. That did a lot for their credibility, not.
The Chevy Cruze has actually been pretty successful for GM in the US.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:42 am
  #183  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

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Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:46 am
  #184  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
The Chevy Cruze has actually been pretty successful for GM in the US.
They made some improvements to that model, but they brought the crappy low end, under powered, death trap shit to the U.S. and Canada too, and for that there is no forgiveness. Especially when they plaster the American flag on them and throw around the word America attached to something from Korea. Customer deception. Every owner of one of those that I knew, had no clue they were Korean made and thought they were made in the U.S. Of course, that was GM's intention with their misleading advertising and promotion.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:55 am
  #185  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by dakota44
Every owner of one of those that I knew, had no clue they were Korean made and thought they were made in the U.S.
The Chevy Cruze sold in the US is assembled in a remote Korean outpost called Lordstown, Ohio.

A lot of the engineering was performed in Korea. But Ohio is still part of the US, last I checked.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:56 am
  #186  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by dakota44
They made some improvements to that model, but they brought the crappy low end, under powered, death trap shit to the U.S. and Canada too, and for that there is no forgiveness. Especially when they plaster the American flag on them and throw around the word America attached to something from Korea. Customer deception. Every owner of one of those that I knew, had no clue they were Korean made and thought they were made in the U.S. Of course, that was GM's intention with their misleading advertising and promotion.

The ones in the US are made at Lordstown, Ohio. I will be passing by the Plant, tomorrow afternoon, en-route to Breezewood, PA.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...rdstown-ohio/1
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:58 am
  #187  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Scouse Express
The ones in the US are made at Lordstown, Ohio. I will be passing by the Plant, tomorrow afternoon, en-route to Breezewood, PA.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...rdstown-ohio/1
To be fair, the motors in the new diesel Cruze are assembled in Europe. Damned Koreans.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 7:58 am
  #188  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Bink
Why isn't Fisker in the same category as Tesla? I would have said that it was.
I think the parallels are significant.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 8:09 am
  #189  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Bink
This is what I really want. I've been in a real one but I will only ever to be able to afford a kit. Just need to make sure it has a 'proper' engine in it.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...psd99cce8a.jpg
How funny....
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 8:10 am
  #190  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
To be fair, the motors in the new diesel Cruze are assembled in Europe. Damned Koreans.
Oi! One of my cars is Korean!
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 8:10 am
  #191  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Tesla is a better managed company, and has done a better job with the product. The company does deserve credit for just not producing vaporware, while Fisker was so caught up with design that he forgot about the little things, such as engineering.
Clearly the Tesla's engineering is better, but the Tesla still looks like a success driven primarily by marketing. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, if the technology and infrastructure can be made cost effective for mass market appeal, Tesla will either be crushed by the steamrollers of the US, German, Japanese, and Korean automotive giants, or consigned to being a permanent niche player, an "electric Ferrari" you might say, or an "electric Porsche" if the sales numbers are high enough.

If the technology and infrastructure don't reach critical mass, then Tesla is unlikely to survive long term.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 8:16 am
  #192  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Bink
Oi! One of my cars is Korean!
Mine is.

Well, bits made in Korea and some (possibly final) assembly done in Australia. By a Japanese car company, produced for the American market
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 8:20 am
  #193  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
Mine is.

Well, bits made in Korea and some (possibly final) assembly done in Australia. By a Japanese car company, produced for the American market
Well to be fair mine's from a Korean manufacturer but I'm fairly sure it came out of the Alabama plant they have!
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 8:22 am
  #194  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Bink
Well to be fair mine's from a Korean manufacturer but I'm fairly sure it came out of the Alabama plant they have!
Mine would have been made in Japan, if we'd got a higher trim level

To my knowledge, Suzuki never had a plant in the US, like Honda and Subaru et al. Since they've pulled out of the American car market altogether now, it's rather irrelevant anyway.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 8:44 am
  #195  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Clearly the Tesla's engineering is better, but the Tesla still looks like a success driven primarily by marketing. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, if the technology and infrastructure can be made cost effective for mass market appeal, Tesla will either be crushed by the steamrollers of the US, German, Japanese, and Korean automotive giants, or consigned to being a permanent niche player, an "electric Ferrari" you might say, or an "electric Porsche" if the sales numbers are high enough.

If the technology and infrastructure don't reach critical mass, then Tesla is unlikely to survive long term.
You seem unwilling to accept that it's a well executed product. You should give Tesla credit where it's due -- the company has designed and engineered a desirable product, and it appears to be well assembled. That doesn't necessarily mean that they've fixed what's wrong with batteries generally, but it isn't a fly-by-night operation.

As for marketing, every company that wants to charge a premium product has to build a brand. I would consider the marketing to be a strength, not a weakness.

(Fisker, on the other hand, was badly managed. All of the effort went into aesthetics, at the expense of engineering.)

I can see a few different futures of Tesla. A tech company such as Google could buy it; Google could pay a premium for it, even if it wasn't profitable at the time.

If EVs don't have a breakthrough anytime soon, then an automaker could buy it for compliance reasons. (I'd put Toyota and Daimler in lead position for this scenario.) With various EU and California regulations pushing electrification, all of the automakers will have to make electrics in low volumes just to comply with the laws. But an automaker wouldn't pay the current share price; the stock will have to drop to make it worth their while.

If EVs do have a breakthrough, then the brand might be desirable, just as Rolls Royce, Bentley and MINI were to VW and BMW. I could see a company such as VW wanting it under that scenario.

In any case, Elon Musk will make money on this. Now that the government loans are paid off, he's free to sell off his own shares.
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