Latest on ACA / Obamacare
#16
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Joined: Jan 2017
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Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
Clinton campaigned in '08 on something very similar to the ACA. In fact, her healthcare advisor was Jonathan Gruber, the subsequent architect of the ACA. In '16 she campaigned to fix and improve the ACA, which she believed was a better way to get to universal coverage than scrapping it and moving to a single payer system (as Sanders proposed). No politician is proposing an "NHS-style" system, which is both single payer and single provider.:
""I want you to understand why I am fighting so hard for the Affordable Care Act," she said at Grand View University after hearing from a woman who spoke about her daughter receiving cancer treatment thanks to the health care law. "I don't want it repealed, I don't want us to be thrown back into a terrible, terrible national debate. I don't want us to end up in gridlock. People can't wait!"
She added, "People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary...r-ever-happen/
So, no, Clinton did not say "never, ever' to universal healthcare. That's a complete misrepresentation.
""I want you to understand why I am fighting so hard for the Affordable Care Act," she said at Grand View University after hearing from a woman who spoke about her daughter receiving cancer treatment thanks to the health care law. "I don't want it repealed, I don't want us to be thrown back into a terrible, terrible national debate. I don't want us to end up in gridlock. People can't wait!"
She added, "People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary...r-ever-happen/
So, no, Clinton did not say "never, ever' to universal healthcare. That's a complete misrepresentation.
The quote you posted shows, she is substantially saying "never, ever" to single-payer. As President in either 2008 or 2016, it would have been her job to lead the country through debate and to "some better idea." That she was not willing to do that for the working poor or the sick, but was perfectly happy to embrace a deal to enrich white collar insurance executives, is indicative of how poor a nominee she was and why so much of the country was uncomfortable with her.
The Republicans are no better, perhaps worse, but anyone looking to the current crop of Democrats for a solution is delusional. They are simply not interested and think things are mostly fine except for a few whingers and outliers.
The other thing people forget - when ACA was going down, Democrats controlled the White House, the House of Representatives, and had 60 votes in the Senate. They wouldn't have needed a single Republican vote to pass "some better idea." Instead Obama and Harry Reid used the same excuses that Trump and McConnell are using now for why nothing substantial is getting done.
#17
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,852
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
You are correct, I meant single-payer and used the term universal health care by mistake instead.
The quote you posted shows, she is substantially saying "never, ever" to single-payer. As President in either 2008 or 2016, it would have been her job to lead the country through debate and to "some better idea." That she was not willing to do that for the working poor or the sick, but was perfectly happy to embrace a deal to enrich white collar insurance executives, is indicative of how poor a nominee she was and why so much of the country was uncomfortable with her.
The quote you posted shows, she is substantially saying "never, ever" to single-payer. As President in either 2008 or 2016, it would have been her job to lead the country through debate and to "some better idea." That she was not willing to do that for the working poor or the sick, but was perfectly happy to embrace a deal to enrich white collar insurance executives, is indicative of how poor a nominee she was and why so much of the country was uncomfortable with her.
The other thing people forget - when ACA was going down, Democrats controlled the White House, the House of Representatives, and had 60 votes in the Senate. They wouldn't have needed a single Republican vote to pass "some better idea." Instead Obama and Harry Reid used the same excuses that Trump and McConnell are using now for why nothing substantial is getting done.
Last edited by Giantaxe; Feb 17th 2018 at 1:11 am.
#18
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
You are correct, I meant single-payer and used the term universal health care by mistake instead.
The quote you posted shows, she is substantially saying "never, ever" to single-payer. As President in either 2008 or 2016, it would have been her job to lead the country through debate and to "some better idea." That she was not willing to do that for the working poor or the sick, but was perfectly happy to embrace a deal to enrich white collar insurance executives, is indicative of how poor a nominee she was and why so much of the country was uncomfortable with her.
The Republicans are no better, perhaps worse, but anyone looking to the current crop of Democrats for a solution is delusional. They are simply not interested and think things are mostly fine except for a few whingers and outliers.
The other thing people forget - when ACA was going down, Democrats controlled the White House, the House of Representatives, and had 60 votes in the Senate. They wouldn't have needed a single Republican vote to pass "some better idea." Instead Obama and Harry Reid used the same excuses that Trump and McConnell are using now for why nothing substantial is getting done.
The quote you posted shows, she is substantially saying "never, ever" to single-payer. As President in either 2008 or 2016, it would have been her job to lead the country through debate and to "some better idea." That she was not willing to do that for the working poor or the sick, but was perfectly happy to embrace a deal to enrich white collar insurance executives, is indicative of how poor a nominee she was and why so much of the country was uncomfortable with her.
The Republicans are no better, perhaps worse, but anyone looking to the current crop of Democrats for a solution is delusional. They are simply not interested and think things are mostly fine except for a few whingers and outliers.
The other thing people forget - when ACA was going down, Democrats controlled the White House, the House of Representatives, and had 60 votes in the Senate. They wouldn't have needed a single Republican vote to pass "some better idea." Instead Obama and Harry Reid used the same excuses that Trump and McConnell are using now for why nothing substantial is getting done.
#19
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 78
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
A very good friend of mine joined BUPA in the early 90's and stayed with them until a couple of years ago, he always bragged about how it was far better than the NHS, he then discovered he had cancer, they covered his treatment until the point when he went to renew his contract and had his cover revoked, it seems that BUPA are no different to any US insurance company, they take your money until you are seriously sick and need them to pay you, then they drop you like a ton of bricks.
#20
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
A very good friend of mine joined BUPA in the early 90's and stayed with them until a couple of years ago, he always bragged about how it was far better than the NHS, he then discovered he had cancer, they covered his treatment until the point when he went to renew his contract and had his cover revoked, it seems that BUPA are no different to any US insurance company, they take your money until you are seriously sick and need them to pay you, then they drop you like a ton of bricks.
I had it and used it when I had an accident and the NHS wait was long for something that could otherwise wait.
#21
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
Both parties are determined to make it fail. People on here keep forgetting it was St Hillary herself who said "never, ever" to universal health care, and that Obama was perfectly happy to let insurance company lobbyists have a huge impact on the ACA bill that mandated people to buy their product. The Democrats want an NHS style system arguably even less than the Republicans.
That was naive. The GOP would have opposed anything proposed by Democrats because it was proposed by Democrats.
#22
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
Obamacare was about as non bipartisan as you could get.
Even those who voted for it seemingly did so without knowing what was in it, all on party lines.
Even those who voted for it seemingly did so without knowing what was in it, all on party lines.
#23
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,852
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
It was a right wing/Republican idea until a Democratic president proposed it. Then it magically became a government takeover of healthcare.
Oh boy, not this canard again
"Although the point is not made clearly or explicitly, it appears that the sense of Pelosi’s remarks was that the benefits (in her view) of the bill – rather than the contents of the bill – would only be fully revealed to the public after it was passed and implemented. "
https://www.snopes.com/pelosi-health...what-is-in-it/
"Although the point is not made clearly or explicitly, it appears that the sense of Pelosi’s remarks was that the benefits (in her view) of the bill – rather than the contents of the bill – would only be fully revealed to the public after it was passed and implemented. "
https://www.snopes.com/pelosi-health...what-is-in-it/
Last edited by Giantaxe; Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:33 pm.
#24
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
I have zero expectations of Republicans ever being honest about anything, but ACA was in effect a national version of the Romneycare plan in Massachusetts.
As in Mitt Romney, the GOP nominee in 2012. Yeah, that guy.
Someone, the same idea became some crazy African Islamist black thing when it came from Obama.
As in Mitt Romney, the GOP nominee in 2012. Yeah, that guy.
Someone, the same idea became some crazy African Islamist black thing when it came from Obama.
#25
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
Regarding your interesting post -
Why do you say that if you retire, you won't have coverage? Generally, in the US when you retire (or more accurately, hit 65), you become eligible for Medicare which is considered to be pretty darned good coverage.
I have a very rare cancer of the blood, so rare that only one doctor in the very big hospital I attend knows anything about it or what is actually is. I rely on a very expensive form of oral chemotherapy which is sent to my from a specialist pharmacy in Detroit. The actual cost is $16,000.00 a month, obviously this is beyond my truck driving wage, for the first year I have been on a special program to help me and my co-pay ahs been reduced to $10.00, it is now being raised to $250.00 a month, which along with all the other prescription payments is way too much for me. If Obamacare is repealed I may a well just give up and die. I am only 18 months away from retirement but I know that if I retire I will have no real health insurance. If the Republicans have their way I can have my insurance refuse to treat my condition. What sickens me is the constant criticism of the NHS system from Republicans who don't understand or even give a dam about how it works. What those greedy Republicans need to remember is that we as tax payers provide their healthcare.
Bring in a socialized health care system to the USA ASAP.
Bring in a socialized health care system to the USA ASAP.
#26
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
I had a meeting with a pretty good health insurance broker. She said there was one good ACA-compliant plan in AZ (Health Net), but my premium would be $1k/mo unless I qualified for credits (for which I would need to earn less than $48k; premium with credits circa $400/mo). This plan had a deductible of $4200 and max out of pocket of $7k.
The second option was a frankenstein plan lashed together from various sources and combining 4 short-term (3 month) plans, with all sorts of weird restrictions, but would result in a net monthly payment of about $500. It was non-ACA compliant and included no coverage for preventive measures. As a healthy guy this would probably work for me. If I actually got sick, they could drop me after 1 year - sounds like the 'good old days'.
In talking with the broker more generally, she was saying that people are now realizing just how good the ACA was, and she believes it now enjoys >50% support, which is why the republicans are hesitant/incapable of killing it off.
The second option was a frankenstein plan lashed together from various sources and combining 4 short-term (3 month) plans, with all sorts of weird restrictions, but would result in a net monthly payment of about $500. It was non-ACA compliant and included no coverage for preventive measures. As a healthy guy this would probably work for me. If I actually got sick, they could drop me after 1 year - sounds like the 'good old days'.
In talking with the broker more generally, she was saying that people are now realizing just how good the ACA was, and she believes it now enjoys >50% support, which is why the republicans are hesitant/incapable of killing it off.
#27
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
$1k a month is good for an ACA plan? Isn't that the whole point. Anything but affordable.
#28
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Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
They don't realise that $1,000 a month is not affordable to many people. If they did - and understood that massive ACA-related premium hikes wrecked the family budget for millions of Americans - they would understand why some people hate the ACA, instead of just writing them off as rubes who don't know what's good for them.
#29
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Posts: 12,852
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
They don't realise that $1,000 a month is not affordable to many people. If they did - and understood that massive ACA-related premium hikes wrecked the family budget for millions of Americans - they would understand why some people hate the ACA, instead of just writing them off as rubes who don't know what's good for them.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robbman.../#5a9506903a01
Some telling info on costs here:
https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of...-costs-4064878
Last edited by Giantaxe; Feb 26th 2018 at 9:11 pm.
#30
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Latest on ACA / Obamacare
They don't realise that $1,000 a month is not affordable to many people. If they did - and understood that massive ACA-related premium hikes wrecked the family budget for millions of Americans - they would understand why some people hate the ACA, instead of just writing them off as rubes who don't know what's good for them.
One of the things mentioned at the time it came into force was that it made no inroads on costs, just made people buy an every increasingly unaffordable product.