Bermudashorts

Agree the result was unexpected for many. But your next statement is illogical, if people thought their poxy vote wouldn't make a difference then they wouldn't have voted. But turnout was 72% so obviously people (on both sides) were very much determined to make their vote count and knew it would.

I have just read the full speech, what part did you find nauseating? I thought it seemed entirely sensible and reflected her duties as Home Secretary. The LBC clip appears totally unrelated. If you have a problem with Amber Rudd's speech why didn't you post a link to the speech rather than some silly Facebook clip.

mrken30

I see no one yet has quoted the definition of a EU citizen.

Any person who holds the nationality of an EU country is automatically also an EU citizen. EU citizenship is additional to and does not replace national citizenship. It is for each EU country to lay down the conditions for the acquisition and loss of nationality of that country.
Citizenship of the Union is conferred directly on every EU citizen by the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU

And not quite the draft but EU citizens also have the right to equal access to the EU Civil Service.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/

Bermudashorts

It is still a misuse of the word. In that it is inconsistent with what the rest of the world interprets as the meaning of "citizen".

How do I access the EU civil service? Why would I want to?

mrken30

Are you and English Citizen? no. Are you a British citizen? maybe.
Your passport will say that you are a European and UK citizen. European comes before UK from what I remember.

Yet if you are Irish, you are an Irish citizen, but if you are Scottish you are not necessarily a Scottish citizen.

Definition of citizen: a native or naturalized member of a state or nation who owes allegiance to its government and is entitled to its protection

Does the EU have a government? Yes
Are EU "citizens" entitled to EU protection? Yes.

I'm not saying it the correct use of the word, but I don't think it's as clear cut as some are making out.

Pulaski

It's all about the European Onion marketing itself, trying to make itself important and make everyone feel warm and gooey about Europe. They are clearly trying to make the EU "important" or "necessary", when for most people it is no such thing!

By most measures this hasn't worked as very large numbers of people in every country in the EU, and from opinion polls I have seen, the majority of people in most countries have negative views about one or more aspects of the operation of the EU.

AdobePinon

Well, duh.

Former Lancastrian

The EU consists of 28 member states but 27 if the UK exits.
The USA allows citizens of 38 countries to enter the USA under the Visa Waiver Programme. Guess what not all countries from the EU member states are afforded this so are you an EU citizen?

Bulgaria, Cyprus, Poland & Romania are members of the EU but do not have VWP access.

Now how about Canada?

The following EU member states require a visa to enter Canada

Bulgaria & Romania all 26 others just require the eTA.

So go ahead and tell the USA & Canada that they are discriminating against EU citizens. See what reply you get.

Pulaski

There is already a diplomatic argument about that, with the EU threatening to withdraw the rights of US citizens to travel to the EU without a visa unless America treats the citizens of all EU countries equally. The cut off is fairly soon I think, either the end of this year or early 2017.

I can't help but wonder how the EU member states will react as I am sure that the major west European countries aren't going to want to discourage American tourists, and the EU has no direct control over the immigration controls. I presume, given the current relationship that the UK has with the EU, that any attempt to "tell" Britain to require Americans to have visas is going to be given very short shrift!

Former Lancastrian

They have the same argument with Canada with ratification of the CETA Trade deal. Will Canada lift visa restrictions on Bulgaria and Romania? Time will tell but there is a reason they are required. Something to do with refugee claims perhaps.

FlyingDutchman6666

VWP. Guess what not all UK nationals are afforded this. Does UK nationality exist?

(To be eligible to travel under the VWP, British citizens must have the unrestricted right of permanent abode in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, and the Isle of Man.)

Taiwanese citizens can enter the US and Canada visa-free, except for those citizens who do not have a national id number. Does Taiwanese citizenship exist?

British citizens with a connection to Jersey carry an endorsement in their British passports that says "holder is not entitled to benefit from European Community Provisions relating to employment or establishment". Does British citizenship exist?

So go ahead and tell France & Germany that they are discriminating against British citizens. See what reply you get.

mrken30

The real story is that people will be losing access to freedom of travel with regards to work, education and healthcare.

Former Lancastrian

The Nationality Law of the Republic of China[1] defines and regulates nationality of the Republic of China. It was first promulgated by the Nationalist Government on February 5, 1929 and revised by the Taipei-based Legislative Yuan in 2000, 2001, and 2006.

The Act, like the Constitution of the Republic of China, makes no provision regarding citizenship. Citizenship rights in the Republic of China are currently restricted to persons with household registration in the Taiwan Area. The Act sets to define persons in terms of nationality (國籍), terming them as "nationals" (國民) rather than "citizens" (公民), a term that does not appear in the act.

They do issue a passport that on the cover states Republic Of China Tawain.
Both ESTA and eTA applications have choose your country of citizenship as Tawain but I don't see one for European Union citizen.

FlyingDutchman6666

Don't bother. Even the UK Electoral Commission talks about 'EU Citizens' yet according to this thread, no such thing exists. No rational argument is wanted, it's just an excuse for EU bashing.

If you want to bash the hated EU, you should pick one of the actual failings of the EU, of which there are many. Instead of just making things up as you go along, because it sounds good.

Kind of reminds me of many of the Leave campaign arguments.

Pulaski

Er, British citizens do! ..... There are other residents of the UK that wouldn't be covered by the VWP, but they are not "citizens".

I also see you flipped from "British nationals" to "British citizens" and I am not sure that they are interchangeable.

Former Lancastrian

And why is this happening? Oh yeah I forgot the then PM of the UK someone called David Cameron promised a referendum on if the UK should leave the EU and they had it. The result was over 17.4 million voters opted to vote LEAVE. The UK government is now in the process of working on how to trigger Article 50 so that the will of the people is respected.
Im guessing that most of the 27 remaining EU countries will not slap on a visa requirement to visit their country just that you use a UK passport and line up in the non EU passport holders line. If your work skills are in high demand you should be able to get a work permit. If willing to pay International Student funds you will still be allowed to study in those countries. Im guessing if you have legal status in the country you will be afforded some healthcare coverage.

So the sky really isn't falling is it?