Homesick in Wisconsin
Jan 21st 2020, 1:56 pm
#76
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,505
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
I would say that depends heavily on your own cultural perspective and life experiences, and I believe most critically on your opinion on US politics.
That said, I could hardy disagree more with your opinion, and in support of my contrary view I would point to the Brexit referendum, and that despite the vocal opposition that the turnout in the recent general election actually declined, so in addition to the Brexiteers, there there are apparently lot of people who are not motivated enough to stay in the EU to get of their sofa to vote for a remoaner MP.
I would also point to the estimated 1.3 million (per BBC) British citizens living in the US, compare to currently around 240,000 (I have seen estimates of close to 400,000, but that was in 2012 and numbers have declined since then) in Spain and 150,000 in France (estimates may have been as high as 185,000), then about 100,000 in Germany and 65,000 in Italy - and this is despite the obstacles put in the way of a British citizen relocating to the US, whereas any (British) Tom, Dick or Harriet, has had the unrestricted option to move to Spain, France, or any other country in the European Onion, for more than 40 years, and yet the number of British citizens who have done so is only a fraction of those who have made it through the hurdles to make it to the USA. That doesn't sound like close cultural affinity to me.
Then there all those British citizens who decided to leave the UK, but went to Australia (1.2 million), Canada, and NZ (200,000 each), all of whom apparently felt so little affinity with EU countries that they preferred to move thousands of miles across the globe, and go through the visa application process, rather than make the visa-free, unrestricted hop across the English Channel.
From my perspective I see a lot more cultural cross-interest between the US and UK than between the UK and anywhere else in Europe - European music doesn't resonate much in the UK, not compared to music from the US, European films are mostly an art-house affair, whereas Britain has aspirations to a global mass-market films, and also hosts many US productions. And then there is television - I can't think of much European TV that makes it onto British TV channels, and in any case any European TV programming is a tiny fraction of the amount of US TV programs that make it onto British TV. ..... Can you believe that I was a huge fan of the Dukes of Hazzard, which seems amusingly ironic considering where I now live?
That said, I could hardy disagree more with your opinion, and in support of my contrary view I would point to the Brexit referendum, and that despite the vocal opposition that the turnout in the recent general election actually declined, so in addition to the Brexiteers, there there are apparently lot of people who are not motivated enough to stay in the EU to get of their sofa to vote for a remoaner MP.
I would also point to the estimated 1.3 million (per BBC) British citizens living in the US, compare to currently around 240,000 (I have seen estimates of close to 400,000, but that was in 2012 and numbers have declined since then) in Spain and 150,000 in France (estimates may have been as high as 185,000), then about 100,000 in Germany and 65,000 in Italy - and this is despite the obstacles put in the way of a British citizen relocating to the US, whereas any (British) Tom, Dick or Harriet, has had the unrestricted option to move to Spain, France, or any other country in the European Onion, for more than 40 years, and yet the number of British citizens who have done so is only a fraction of those who have made it through the hurdles to make it to the USA. That doesn't sound like close cultural affinity to me.
Then there all those British citizens who decided to leave the UK, but went to Australia (1.2 million), Canada, and NZ (200,000 each), all of whom apparently felt so little affinity with EU countries that they preferred to move thousands of miles across the globe, and go through the visa application process, rather than make the visa-free, unrestricted hop across the English Channel.
From my perspective I see a lot more cultural cross-interest between the US and UK than between the UK and anywhere else in Europe - European music doesn't resonate much in the UK, not compared to music from the US, European films are mostly an art-house affair, whereas Britain has aspirations to a global mass-market films, and also hosts many US productions. And then there is television - I can't think of much European TV that makes it onto British TV channels, and in any case any European TV programming is a tiny fraction of the amount of US TV programs that make it onto British TV. ..... Can you believe that I was a huge fan of the Dukes of Hazzard, which seems amusingly ironic considering where I now live?
I can't really say what others feel. I find the US far more foreign to me than any European country I've been to, irrespective of how many Brits are actually here. But then of course I felt less foreign in Mexico than I do here - whether that was due to European influence there or something else, hard to say. Their sense of humour is certainly much more like the British one than is the US one.
Jan 21st 2020, 2:03 pm
#77
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
.... It's only when you live here people probably realise bits (much in purse geography terms) of the USA are actually not at all like "home". It's horses for courses, but many people are taken over by a dream before getting here - my earlier post was making sure you identify what that dream really requires and target based on it, making sure to understand what could turn that dream into a nightmare. Don't just assume it will feel a lot like "home".
Jan 21st 2020, 3:30 pm
#78
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
Same shit different bucket. That's my default answer to comparison questions between the UK and the US. Culturally a million miles apart, but closer than somewhere like Poland, simply because of the shared language.
.... They all look like downtown Marathon, WI c2010, taken through a telephoto lens?
Jan 21st 2020, 4:17 pm
#80
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
Variations on a theme but I've been in lots of small towns in Wisconsin (though not Marathon as it turns out), and they do all look pretty similar to that. Or at least they have the same feel. It's not a criticism, just an observation. Makes sense too, for 6 months out of the year, central and northern Wisconsin is a glacial wasteland, why waste time on complicated layouts when you can chuck down a grid and **** off to Arizona until the weather becomes civilized again?
Jan 21st 2020, 5:01 pm
#81
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Dubuque, Iowa, USA
Posts: 3,770
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
Kerry,
I'm in Dubuque, Iowa, right at the Southwestern Tip of Wisconsin. Feel free to drop me a PM, anytime. I've been here for almost 24 years. Took me about 5 or 6 years to get over the Homesickness.
Work through the rough times. Yeah, the Weather is crap in the Winter. But, there's plenty of stuff indoors to do.
Best Wishes!
Jim.
I'm in Dubuque, Iowa, right at the Southwestern Tip of Wisconsin. Feel free to drop me a PM, anytime. I've been here for almost 24 years. Took me about 5 or 6 years to get over the Homesickness.
Work through the rough times. Yeah, the Weather is crap in the Winter. But, there's plenty of stuff indoors to do.
Best Wishes!
Jim.
Jan 21st 2020, 5:43 pm
#83
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
I've seen people living in condemned and bricked-up tenements in Glasgow, in the 1980's and people living in freight containers scattered across wasteland in Naples, in the 1990's. I would consider both those to be broadly comparable to people living in what looked to me like garden sheds in New Orleans, and in decrepit trailers with broken windows in Mississippi, that I have sen in the US.
Jan 21st 2020, 6:41 pm
#84
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
I've seen people living in condemned and bricked-up tenements in Glasgow, in the 1980's and people living in freight containers scattered across wasteland in Naples, in the 1990's. I would consider both those to be broadly comparable to people living in what looked to me like garden sheds in New Orleans, and in decrepit trailers with broken windows in Mississippi, that I have sen in the US.
There's still quite a bit of dereliction in both parts of Belfast, and in my old town too, and while that doesn't equate to poverty it does echo the kind of abandonment you might see in somewhere like Detroit, or Gary, IN.
Jan 21st 2020, 7:28 pm
#85
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Location: Near Lynchburg Tennessee, home of Jack Daniels
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Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
What’s the causes of poverty in US? Lyndon Johnson declared war on poverty in 65 and it’s not much better. What is the secret fix that most of Europe and the UK have discovered to eliminate poverty?
Jan 21st 2020, 7:59 pm
#86
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 211
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
After traveling in West Virginia and western North Carolina, I noted that geography can be another factor. In those mountainous regions, even the most 'basic' economic activity, agriculture, is mostly impossible. If western NC weren't a resort area, it would be really poor.
Jan 21st 2020, 8:18 pm
#87
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
(ii) the sheer scale of the US, and the remoteness of cities makes the delivery of basic services considerably more expensive - installing water and sewage utilities for example would be grossly impractical across most of the US, and cities are just so far apart, making each of them more or less an economic island with areas in between where people can just disappear economically.
(iii) there is something "different" about the US and the demographics. The UK imprisons about 1 in 800 of its population, which is significantly higher than any other country in Europe, whereas the US imprisons about 1 in 100 of its population, which can only be partially be explained by prejudical policing and sentencing practices. However this leads on to .....
(iv) European countries allow criminal records to "expire", so most criminal activity is expunged from your criminal record after ten years of "going straight", which allows people to get back into the economic mainstream, whereas the US system of maintaining a criminal record for life has created a permanent economic underclass that has no means to escape and rejoin society where reasonable jobs require a clean record.
Jan 21st 2020, 9:08 pm
#88
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Location: Near Lynchburg Tennessee, home of Jack Daniels
Posts: 1,381
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
(i) poverty hasn't been eliminated in the UK and Europe
(ii) the sheer scale of the US, and the remoteness of cities makes the delivery of basic services considerably more expensive - installing water and sewage utilities for example would be grossly impractical across most of the US, and cities are just so far apart, making each of them more or less an economic island with areas in between where people can just disappear economically.
(iii) there is something "different" about the US and the demographics. The UK imprisons about 1 in 800 of its population, which is significantly higher than any other country in Europe, whereas the US imprisons about 1 in 100 of its population, which can only be partially be explained by prejudical policing and sentencing practices. However this leads on to .....
(iv) European countries allow criminal records to "expire", so most criminal activity is expunged from your criminal record after ten years of "going straight", which allows people to get back into the economic mainstream, whereas the US system of maintaining a criminal record for life has created a permanent economic underclass that has no means to escape and rejoin society where reasonable jobs require a clean record.
(ii) the sheer scale of the US, and the remoteness of cities makes the delivery of basic services considerably more expensive - installing water and sewage utilities for example would be grossly impractical across most of the US, and cities are just so far apart, making each of them more or less an economic island with areas in between where people can just disappear economically.
(iii) there is something "different" about the US and the demographics. The UK imprisons about 1 in 800 of its population, which is significantly higher than any other country in Europe, whereas the US imprisons about 1 in 100 of its population, which can only be partially be explained by prejudical policing and sentencing practices. However this leads on to .....
(iv) European countries allow criminal records to "expire", so most criminal activity is expunged from your criminal record after ten years of "going straight", which allows people to get back into the economic mainstream, whereas the US system of maintaining a criminal record for life has created a permanent economic underclass that has no means to escape and rejoin society where reasonable jobs require a clean record.
Jan 22nd 2020, 6:00 pm
#89
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Joined: Feb 2017
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 802
Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
The Geography probably does have a huge impact on the economic variety you see - even something as everyday as Credit/Debit Cards - the USA cannot keep up with technology in all locations because of the infrastructure costs of doing so and everyone squabbling about who should pay. Which brings me to the second point - the American Dream also plays a part. On the one hand, with the right set of combined circumstances (one of them can be your desire/work ethic) people can do well for themselves, on the other hand, it creates an every man for themselves attitude (my recent conversation with someone asking if I was OK in the UK with poor people being given free healthcare that I had paid for). It's much harder to invest in the infrastructure when large portions of society focus on themselves, and the scale of things makes it expensive to start with.
The result, extremes. You get Silicon Valley, the Bay Area, NYC, but then you get huge swathes of the Nation left behind at times (not always the same places). I guess it's precisely why you see Ghost Towns more so here than elsewhere.
The result, extremes. You get Silicon Valley, the Bay Area, NYC, but then you get huge swathes of the Nation left behind at times (not always the same places). I guess it's precisely why you see Ghost Towns more so here than elsewhere.
Jan 22nd 2020, 6:47 pm
#90
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Location: Near Lynchburg Tennessee, home of Jack Daniels
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Re: Homesick in Wisconsin
I think it would help a lot to have required personal finance courses in high school. From how to balance a check book to loans, IRA’s, saving etc.
You typically have in rural areas a husband and wife working in small factories or similar low paying jobs which could work but leaves little room for stupid financial decisions.
You typically have in rural areas a husband and wife working in small factories or similar low paying jobs which could work but leaves little room for stupid financial decisions.