Gun ooks breaking the law....
Oct 9th 2009, 4:55 am
#16
Septicity
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
Oct 9th 2009, 9:06 pm
#17
Joined: May 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 987
Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
How will more legislation help?
The gun show dealers broke the law by selling to people they thought would not pass a background check, and the proposed solution is to do what? Pass a law that requires gun show dealers to run background checks? How would this help exactly? Would the same gun show dealers suddenly decide to abide by the law because it had a different format?
I'm all for regulating gun ownership, but shouldn't we enforce the existing laws before passing more laws? Are we not trying to penalize the law abiding gun traders with all the paperwork and costs associated with more laws? If we can't enforce the current laws then what use is another law?
Its like the ridiculous do not carry signs at shopping malls, which just inconvenience law abiding concealed carry owners. If signs stating "no guns" deterred criminals then we could just stick a "no bank robbers" sign at all the banks
The gun show dealers broke the law by selling to people they thought would not pass a background check, and the proposed solution is to do what? Pass a law that requires gun show dealers to run background checks? How would this help exactly? Would the same gun show dealers suddenly decide to abide by the law because it had a different format?
I'm all for regulating gun ownership, but shouldn't we enforce the existing laws before passing more laws? Are we not trying to penalize the law abiding gun traders with all the paperwork and costs associated with more laws? If we can't enforce the current laws then what use is another law?
Its like the ridiculous do not carry signs at shopping malls, which just inconvenience law abiding concealed carry owners. If signs stating "no guns" deterred criminals then we could just stick a "no bank robbers" sign at all the banks
Oct 12th 2009, 7:12 pm
#18
Carmel Indiana
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 749
Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
Bloomberg is a prick, I'm glad the major of my city withdrew from his mayors against illegal guns association.
We should just enforce the existing laws via the law enforcement agencies!
Oh yeah, I'm an NRA and NRAILA member, please excuse my Kookiness
Oct 12th 2009, 8:53 pm
#19
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Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, Ga (ex Birmingham UK)
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Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
I think you will find that gun show dealers (i.e. those people whose business it is - and have a FFL) are already supposed to run background checks - and risk losing their FFL if they don't (and get caught, of course).
The main beef is with the 'private' sellers (whatever 'private' means FFS) - they do NOT have to run background checks - but they MUST NOT sell if they have a reasonable suspicion that the purchaser would not pass a BG check.
So you get sellers who get round the need to run a check by calling themselves 'private' but in fact they sell lots of guns. Now in order to sell 348 guns in a year, (as the guy admitted) either you have a collection that rivals your average NG Armoury - or you're no more "private' than S&W - so you ignore the 'likely' test or let the buyer get some surrogate to complete the gun purchase.
If I was a dealer at a show - and I had to compete with some 'private' seller who didnt have the trading restrictions I am subject to - I'd be slightly pissed.
Oct 12th 2009, 9:30 pm
#20
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Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
"That report has given gun shows a bad name," said David Evans, a firearms dealer based in Cleveland, Tenn. "I'd like to have a talk with Mr. Bloomberg."
Evans, who brought dozens of rifles and handguns to the gun show in Franklin, said he follows every gun law there is and keeps meticulous records of who purchases his guns.
"You can come to me 25 years from now and ask me who I sold a gun to and I'll tell you," Evans said. "With any law that's out there, somebody's going to break it. I follow the laws, and if I don't, I'm subject to a $100,000 fine and 10 years in jail."
Evans, who brought dozens of rifles and handguns to the gun show in Franklin, said he follows every gun law there is and keeps meticulous records of who purchases his guns.
"You can come to me 25 years from now and ask me who I sold a gun to and I'll tell you," Evans said. "With any law that's out there, somebody's going to break it. I follow the laws, and if I don't, I'm subject to a $100,000 fine and 10 years in jail."
Do they honestly think people will not go to them because of the Bloomberg report??
E. Rick Lisi Jr., owner of Gunny's Gun Shop in Livingston, Tenn., said there is a loophole. He pointed to a man sitting at a table near his and said the man was selling guns to anyone who paid cash and wasn't asking for background checks.
Lisi, who is a deputy with the Clay County Sheriff's Department, said gun show promoters should allow only federally licensed dealers at their shows.
"The quickest way to fix it, to shut down the loophole, is to make everyone do a background check," Lisi said. "There you go — no more loophole."
Lisi, who is a deputy with the Clay County Sheriff's Department, said gun show promoters should allow only federally licensed dealers at their shows.
"The quickest way to fix it, to shut down the loophole, is to make everyone do a background check," Lisi said. "There you go — no more loophole."
People who want to buy a gun (but want to do it legally) have no problem - they just insist on completing the form and the phone background check.
"Paperwork? PAPERWORK? We don't need no stinking paperwork!!"
Oct 12th 2009, 9:45 pm
#22
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Oct 12th 2009, 10:00 pm
#24
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Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
Oct 12th 2009, 10:07 pm
#25
Septicity
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Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
Oct 15th 2009, 1:15 am
#27
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Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
Oct 15th 2009, 1:39 am
#28
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,605
Re: Gun ooks breaking the law....
It's a matter of property rights. There's a huge difference between a law that says I can't sell a gun to somebody I have reason to believe is a convicted felon* and one saying that I can only sell a gun, at below market value, to somebody who has paid geld to the bureaucracy.
* Incidentally, this happens much less often than Bloomberg and the media would have you believe. There are a lot of private sales round our way. Most are between people who already know each other. In the remaining cases, the seller usually asks to see a drivers license (and notes down the details) or, preferably, a CHL (which, in TX, exempts you from a NICS check anyway).
