Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Dec 12th 2014, 11:09 am
#901
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: CT
Posts: 33,488
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Cops use taser on woman while she recorded arrest of another man | Ars Technica
And then try to erase her phone.
And then try to erase her phone.
Dec 12th 2014, 5:58 pm
#902
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,965
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Are you suggesting that Darren Wilson was giving us an entirely truthful account, or one that he knew would accommodate all the facts while still letting him off?
Most civilians would not know what the law required them to show to be allowed to use deadly force. They will tell you they were in fear of being killed but not articulate why they had that fear. You might get he was charging at me, but that isn't sufficient. They cannot explain themselves in a way that fulfills the requirements of the law. Cops can, that is why I think so few get indited.
In that situation at the scene the only comment anyone should make is "I was in fear on my life, I acted in self defense. I require to speak to a lawyer. Something else a cop knows. I want my union rep now.
Dec 12th 2014, 6:10 pm
#903
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 13,103
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Cops use taser on woman while she recorded arrest of another man | Ars Technica
And then try to erase her phone.
And then try to erase her phone.
Illinois—again—moves to ban recording the police | Ars Technica
Dec 12th 2014, 7:09 pm
#904
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Not sure I would use manipulate. But they know what they need to say to justify their actions. They know what a prosecutor needs to prove to get them indited. But the point you are making is valid.
The forensic evidence supports his account, which I believe is truthful. To me the crucial points in his statement were where he describes the strength of Brown in comparison to his own. Where he describes how Brown tried to reach the trigger of his gun, how he describes what he thought Brown was trying to do at that moment. So when Brown turned and charged back at him it was a reasonable assumption based on what had just occurred that if Brown reached him he would attempt to takes his gun, he had the strength to do so, and would use it on the officer. The officer had reasonable grounds to be in fear of his life. That fear doesn't have to be right, it only has to be reasonable. The law allowed him to use deadly force to prevent Brown from doing what the officer feared he would do.
Most civilians would not know what the law required them to show to be allowed to use deadly force. They will tell you they were in fear of being killed but not articulate why they had that fear. You might get he was charging at me, but that isn't sufficient. They cannot explain themselves in a way that fulfills the requirements of the law. Cops can, that is why I think so few get indited.
In that situation at the scene the only comment anyone should make is "I was in fear on my life, I acted in self defense. I require to speak to a lawyer. Something else a cop knows. I want my union rep now.
The forensic evidence supports his account, which I believe is truthful. To me the crucial points in his statement were where he describes the strength of Brown in comparison to his own. Where he describes how Brown tried to reach the trigger of his gun, how he describes what he thought Brown was trying to do at that moment. So when Brown turned and charged back at him it was a reasonable assumption based on what had just occurred that if Brown reached him he would attempt to takes his gun, he had the strength to do so, and would use it on the officer. The officer had reasonable grounds to be in fear of his life. That fear doesn't have to be right, it only has to be reasonable. The law allowed him to use deadly force to prevent Brown from doing what the officer feared he would do.
Most civilians would not know what the law required them to show to be allowed to use deadly force. They will tell you they were in fear of being killed but not articulate why they had that fear. You might get he was charging at me, but that isn't sufficient. They cannot explain themselves in a way that fulfills the requirements of the law. Cops can, that is why I think so few get indited.
In that situation at the scene the only comment anyone should make is "I was in fear on my life, I acted in self defense. I require to speak to a lawyer. Something else a cop knows. I want my union rep now.
Say nothing, I would think most people know that.
Dec 13th 2014, 5:48 pm
#905
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Posts: 1,570
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Dec 13th 2014, 8:42 pm
#906
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Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,106
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Most accounts suggest the undercover cop was trying to get the crowd to be violent and cause damage. Perhaps he got what he deserved. Of course escalating the situation by drawing his gun gangsta style was awesome judgement too.
Dec 13th 2014, 9:35 pm
#907
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Posts: 1,570
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Military and law enforcement are sometimes trained to hold sidearms at an angle, or "sideways" when presenting the weapon with their non-dominant hand. This allows the sights to line up better with your dominant eye.
Dec 13th 2014, 9:37 pm
#908
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Oh what bullshit.
Dec 13th 2014, 9:45 pm
#910
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Posts: 1,570
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
he had already drawn his baton with his dominant hand before he felt the need to draw the gun with the other hand.
Dec 14th 2014, 12:21 am
#911
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Dec 14th 2014, 1:44 am
#912
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
I didn't know. I did some Google research. This is what I found in Wikipedia:
It looks like Uncle Bob might have a point. As I have not seen video of this latest incident I am not certain if it helps explain what happened.
..... Law enforcement officers will sometimes use the side grip to shoot while holding a riot shield or ballistic shield with their other hand. Because the shield limits the field of view, lifting and tilting the gun may make the sights more visible under these circumstances.[1] Some shooters with issues of ocular dominance will tilt the gun at a 15 to 45 degree angle in order to take advantage of their better eye; the gun held in the left hand and the sights aligned to the right eye, for example.[3] ....
Dec 14th 2014, 3:03 am
#913
Joined on April fools day
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: 30 miles from a decent grocery store.
Posts: 10,642
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Assuming the police are even using sights. How many times have I read or heard of 2 or more officers fire 15-20 rounds, suspect hit twice.
Dec 14th 2014, 3:47 am
#914
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Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,106
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
I guess how he was holding the weapon is not really relevant. The point is he should not have been instigating violence which put him in the situation of being called out as a cop and he should not have escalated the situation by drawing his weapon. What was he going to do, shoot his way out?
Dec 14th 2014, 12:25 pm
#915
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
It looks like Uncle Bob might have a point. As I have not seen video of this latest incident I am not certain if it helps explain what happened.
The bullshit aspect is thus. Just because (Wikipedia says so!) some cop somewhere may have been trained to hold a gun sideways, that's no defense for pointing a gun at somebody who is HOLDING A CAMERA. Probably not even a camera, probably a cell phone. The lengths you fanboys will go to, to defend thuggish behavior, has devolved to beyond absurd.