Give and Take
 

Now - this is NOT meant to start a massive argument. I am genuinely interested in people's views.

I was interested to read about a lady who had lived in the US for 40 years and in her own words, one of the vital decision-making factors about returning to the UK was that she would be entitled to use of the NHS for current health issues.

I feel a little uncomfortable about the blatent use of the system - but I have no other solutions to offer, mind!

In the same way, I feel a little uncomfortable about the vast quantities of 'mature' British people who retire to Spain, and the way their health system is overloaded with an elderley population that they never budgeted for - and for whom translators need to be provided. I understand that as an EU member, the services are reciprocated.

I probably also don't completely understand those who don't particularly like the country they chose, but hang on to obtain citizenship then take the first flight home again. I guess I just don't get it. OK, so I do understand it if several members of the family (kids for example) are of one nationality and perhaps the parents want to keep all options open for the future - but many people on here do not cite those reasons. They say "I've stuck it out in this hole for three years and I've earned it".

In all the above scenarios, we are entitled to have / take / use the above services. Am I being over-sensitive and thinking too deeply? :sneaky:

I guess I see and hear people moan and whinge all the time about others who mis-use systems, abuse privileges, cost the country a fortune for this and that, etc, etc. There are many others, of course, who never tap into resources they are entitled to.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Do you know of people who have blatently abused the NHS ethos (eg, health tourism), or kept claiming child benefit when they left, or some other examples that you have become aware of?

I was flippant on a Canada Pension thread, cheekily asking if we could get back our contributions if we hadn't been there that long. I was half joking and half serious. Two years worth of contributions will be worth pennies in 20 years and cost more in admin to work out. But my contributions now are paying for the current pensioners who I am supporting while I live in this country and use it's facilities. I am entitled to a Child Benefit here, and I claim it. Same goes with tax contributions I guess.

I don't particularly agree with the thread that was running about university fees, ie, if you'd been out of the UK for eight years, for example, that you should you get the discounted home rates just because you are a British Citizen and "because I paid tax there for 21 years ... my kids are entitled".

I think there is an element of "sticking it to the man". These are faceless organisations and easy to abuse. They abuse us frequently too, right? Maybe I should just get over it? :D

As I say, I'm not out to start some massive nasty argument - just rambling.

Re: Give and Take
 

At 65 this lady would be eligible for Medicare in the US, so really she would get health care in either country. I am sure there are Americans living in the UK, that are eligible for Medicare, that come back to the US in their older years to be around family, so it works both ways.

As far as Uni education. I don't disagree with the 3-year out rule. If you want to go to Uni in the UK, then live there beforehand. It's a matter of choice.

Re: Give and Take
 

NHS hospitals have been exposed selling organ transplant operations to people who do not live in the UK...

What are the ethical considerations of that? :ohmy:

I guess the EU is supposed to be this one big happy free-market where we can look after each other. In practice it doesn't seem to work that way...

If though somebody moved to the USA and then came back...hmmm, I dunno. Personally, I was overseas for over 7 years and then claimed dole. Although, by the time my first payment arrived I already had a job out of necessity - I mean I couldn't wait for them to ger their shit together, I had no choice, but the point is for the last 7 years I haven't contributed tax to the UK (but obviously did for the years prior to leaving...)

On the other hand, I am now classed as a foreigner when it comes to attending further education, or for applying for certain jobs (e.g the Met police). I need to be here 3 years to overcome that now.

Re: Give and Take
 

If the NHS will cover legal and illegal immigrants as soon as they arrive, why no returning UK citizens who were born and raised there and have spent a few years away? I have no problem with that.
As for the Uni fees, that sucks, my kids will be classed as international students, (one wants to go to UK for Uni) yet EU residents who have never paid into UK taxes get local student fees, it just seems wrong. There should be some happy medium for returning UK citizens, not a full fledged international rate, but not free either. As it is, we'll just save and pay for his schooling and he'll get a job too. and will probably graduate with some loans to pay off.
Thats just the way it is.
I had no idea you could collect dole moving back, thats a bit much, I would have thought you wouldn't be eligible for any monetary help after being gone. I guess you learn something new every day.

Re: Give and Take
 

[QUOTE=

yet EU residents who have never paid into UK taxes get local student fees, it just seems wrong.

[/QUOTE]

EU residents pay taxes in their home country, and go to uni anywhere in the EU. Brits are EU residents.

Re: Give and Take
 

Returning UK citizens ARE eligible for all treatment the moment they return - so long as they are returning to be residents, and not just visiting from a foreign home.

UK citizens returning to live permanently in the UK after living abroad for more than three months are entitled to free NHS hospital treatment from the day they return.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=2&gl=us

Re: Give and Take
 

I don't see what the fuss would be about anyone that wants to move back to the UK from the US and take advantage of something they are entitled to, or for EU citizens either.
I think I actually saw something a while ago about NHS patients who were being "exported" to Spain for specific surgery's because the NHS hospitals were too backed up in the UK. From what I remember they even got an options of choice of hospital within the EU at the time too.

Re: Give and Take
 

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue frankly.I am against abuse of the system, ANy system, in any country. BUt I can see why people in dire straits might do it. I think it is easy to pontificate unless you are in the situation, yk?

One English woman I know living here (in the US) hates living here. She has been here for 7 years and the sole reason she stays is that her teenage son, who is autistic, gets wonder ful services thru his school. The like of which, according to her, he would not get back in the UK. She is paying a huge price for this decision, IMO, as she really and truly hates it her and lives pretty much cut off from any of the 'locals' I met her thru my International group, which is her only network really.

Anyway thats a bit off the point. The health service - in Ireland its not as good as the UK but you still get better treatment there than you would here with no insurance and money. My elderly parents get free everything, doctor visits, medicines etc. I often do tell them they are so fortunate, as both have heart conditions which require a lot of meds. I would hate to be poor and old here in the U.S. Last year the Governor of Illinois decided to give all senors free travel on the busses and trains. There was uproar from taxpayers who thought these elderly folks should pay their own way. Now there are probably going to reverse the decision.

The uni fees? Ireland has the 3 year rule, so if you have been born in Ireland and have lived there for the preceding 3 years, you get the local uni fee rate. I actually think thats fair.

I personally don't know anyone who has returned to the UK or to Ireland to avail of the health care, so cannot comment. But to be honest I could not blame someone who did. A simple xray here costs a fortune, it is crazy.

I guess being abel to 'return' somewhere and claim benefits is a privilege of citizenship?

Re: Give and Take
 

Yep, I understand that to some degree, but presumably the UK pays Spain for that, or there is a writing-off somewhere on the balance sheet between the two countries depending on who does what for who's citizens. If the EU is supposed to be one big happy family (:sneaky:), it does seem daft to have someone in the UK on a waiting list for 18 months, when they could go to France next month to have it done. But the UK will, and should, pick up the tab if they suggest it.

Re: Give and Take
 

That's probably the important bit really; when it all boils down to the important things, you are entitled to be looked after, if being looked after is available.

My heart goes out to your friend with the autistic son. Talk about a rock and a hard place. :(

Re: Give and Take
 

I hadn't heard of this. On the one hand, as long as someone is paying, let them. But I understand the UK donor list is founded on a needs basis, and not even on a first-come-first served - so you cannot 'buy' your way in to a new liver or whatever. So yes, major ethical questions there. :blink:

Re: Give and Take
 

Yes - very true :o

Re: Give and Take
 

[QUOTE=snogood;7337964]
In the same way, I feel a little uncomfortable about the vast quantities of 'mature' British people who retire to Spain, and the way their health system is overloaded with an elderley population that they never budgeted for - and for whom translators need to be provided. I understand that as an EU member, the services are reciprocated.

I`m pretty certain that the treatment that they receive here in Spain would be paid by the NHS in the UK. Certain hospitals here in coastal areas are normally full up of elderly Brits and I doubt the Spanish system could support them. Given the population increase here, people are seen quite quickly in hospitals. Translators are often needed as well but saying that a lot of Doctor`s these days in hospitals here are from overseas and often speak English.

Re: Give and Take
 

Since most of the responses in this thread are from last year, I would like to address what is probably an old question, but one that I need a current answer to. My husband is from the UK. I am American. He has been living here (US) for nearly 8 years. When we return to the UK this year to live on a permanent basis, will we both be qualified to get onto the National Health System? Or will we be required to obtain private health insurance? Or will just my husband qualify? Thanks.

Re: Give and Take
 

So long as you are going to reside there and aren't just visiting you get to sign on with a local GP and be part of the NHS.