Florida shooting
Feb 23rd 2018, 2:10 pm
#736
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Florida shooting
There was an armed police officer (off duty) working at the Pulse nightclub. He did engage with the shooter and he had to withdraw and wait for backup because he was so drastically outgunned.
I don't understand how we can expect the police to rely less on military grade weapons (as expressed earlier in the thread) when clearly it takes more than a "good guy with a gun" to stop a bad guy with a gun ... It takes a SWAT team with a bearcat.
I don't understand how we can expect the police to rely less on military grade weapons (as expressed earlier in the thread) when clearly it takes more than a "good guy with a gun" to stop a bad guy with a gun ... It takes a SWAT team with a bearcat.
Based on LaPierre's unhinged rhetoric yesterday, the only thing I can surmise is that the NRA must be heartbroken that Obama is gone. For 8 years they had him as their boogeyman and gun sales went through the roof. Having somebody like Trump in office must be so scary for them.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:21 pm
#737
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Florida shooting
Sorry if the truth offends you.
If it isn't obvious by now that Trump is a bigot leading a party of bigots, then I'm not sure what it's going to take. Do they have to fire up the ovens before we are allowed to complain about it?
As for the security guy, he is there to be a deterrent, not to make his wife into a widow. A cop in such a circumstance would call for backup.
If it isn't obvious by now that Trump is a bigot leading a party of bigots, then I'm not sure what it's going to take. Do they have to fire up the ovens before we are allowed to complain about it?
As for the security guy, he is there to be a deterrent, not to make his wife into a widow. A cop in such a circumstance would call for backup.
Anyway, his job was to confront the active shooter. I'm pretty sure you'll find that is his dept's policy which is why he's no longer working for them.
In this case the cop with a gun was the only person who stood a chance. But he chose to be a coward while the students were killed, including those without guns who tried to save their fellow students.
And before you say he didn't stand a chance, the new procedures for confronting active shooters aren't necessairly about going in guns blazing, just firing a few shots at the assailant is sometimes enough to screw their plans up. In the Pulse shooting officers engaging the suspect caused him to withdraw into a side room IIRC.
Last edited by anotherlimey; Feb 23rd 2018 at 3:27 pm.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:25 pm
#738
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Florida shooting
I think it was an SRO, which is an actual policeman and not just a security guard. He would be armed, but I think I read he was in another part of the school and couldn't get there fast enough or something. I'm not going to go searching for it now though because it doesn't matter since 17 kids died, so semantics won't help a bit.
Anyway, the fact that there was an armed, trained police office on site and he was effectively powerless against the shooter should make it pretty clear that throwing more guns at the problem, and putting them in the hands of untrained civilians who also happen to be underpaid, overstressed teachers and expect them to potentially point their gun at a child and put two in the chest and one in the head is just pure lunacy. That's before you even get to the fact that even trained marksmen are not 100% accurate with a pistol.
Anyway, the fact that there was an armed, trained police office on site and he was effectively powerless against the shooter should make it pretty clear that throwing more guns at the problem, and putting them in the hands of untrained civilians who also happen to be underpaid, overstressed teachers and expect them to potentially point their gun at a child and put two in the chest and one in the head is just pure lunacy. That's before you even get to the fact that even trained marksmen are not 100% accurate with a pistol.
And no I doubt most teachers would even touch a gun, let alone carry one into the classroom, hence that's a stupid idea.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:39 pm
#739
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Florida shooting
He wasn't powerless, just gutless. I always think most US cops love the Die Hard scenario of going up against the odds and killing the bad guys, but obviously not in this case.
And no I doubt most teachers would even touch a gun, let alone carry one into the classroom, hence that's a stupid idea.
And no I doubt most teachers would even touch a gun, let alone carry one into the classroom, hence that's a stupid idea.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:42 pm
#740
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2015
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 2,061
Re: Florida shooting
According to the sheriff there is CCTV footage of him waiting outside for 4 minutes while the chaos happened inside. He arrived on the scene 90 seconds after the shooting started and the shooting lasted 6 minutes.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:46 pm
#741
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Florida shooting
WTF? That sounds like there was a chance he could have been able to do something if he hadn't been waiting around outside.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:50 pm
#742
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2015
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 2,061
Re: Florida shooting
One comment I saw was that he resigned to protect his pension.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:52 pm
#744
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Florida shooting
That's pretty messed up though. Really, what was the point in him being there at all then?
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:54 pm
#745
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Florida shooting
I think it was an SRO, which is an actual policeman and not just a security guard. He would be armed, but I think I read he was in another part of the school and couldn't get there fast enough or something. I'm not going to go searching for it now though because it doesn't matter since 17 kids died, so semantics won't help a bit.
Anyway, the fact that there was an armed, trained police office on site and he was effectively powerless against the shooter should make it pretty clear that throwing more guns at the problem, and putting them in the hands of untrained civilians who also happen to be underpaid, overstressed teachers and expect them to potentially point their gun at a child and put two in the chest and one in the head is just pure lunacy. That's before you even get to the fact that even trained marksmen are not 100% accurate with a pistol.
Anyway, the fact that there was an armed, trained police office on site and he was effectively powerless against the shooter should make it pretty clear that throwing more guns at the problem, and putting them in the hands of untrained civilians who also happen to be underpaid, overstressed teachers and expect them to potentially point their gun at a child and put two in the chest and one in the head is just pure lunacy. That's before you even get to the fact that even trained marksmen are not 100% accurate with a pistol.
Feb 23rd 2018, 3:56 pm
#746
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Florida shooting
Though, it seems in this case he could have done something if he'd got on scene faster than he did. Not that he could necessarily have saved everyone, but he surely could have taken down the shooter before 17 kids were killed.
Feb 23rd 2018, 4:05 pm
#747
Deep in the woods of CT
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,002
Re: Florida shooting
Hanging around outside is not a good look when the unarmed football coach is throwing himself in front of kids to save them.
Feb 23rd 2018, 4:06 pm
#748
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Feb 23rd 2018, 4:22 pm
#749
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Florida shooting
Based on LaPierre's unhinged rhetoric yesterday, the only thing I can surmise is that the NRA must be heartbroken that Obama is gone. For 8 years they had him as their boogeyman and gun sales went through the roof. Having somebody like Trump in office must be so scary for them.
Feb 23rd 2018, 4:39 pm
#750
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
Re: Florida shooting
So let's recap;
FBI is tipped off TWICE that this is a probable school shooter.
Broward Sheriff's Office is called 18 times reporting Cruz threats and behavior.
School has repeatedly suspended him and regards him as a threat, even going so far as to warn to be on the lookout if he has a backpack on campus.
School Resource Officer doesn't do the post-Columbine tactic. Hides.
Yet somehow gun-owners are the "fascist enablers" and this is all our fault. Get the guns!
Rolls eyes.
My friend says, there's blood in the water this time. This is different.
I don't think so. This is going to backfire on CNN.
https://www.redstate.com/brandon_mor...ly-accomplish/
FBI is tipped off TWICE that this is a probable school shooter.
Broward Sheriff's Office is called 18 times reporting Cruz threats and behavior.
School has repeatedly suspended him and regards him as a threat, even going so far as to warn to be on the lookout if he has a backpack on campus.
School Resource Officer doesn't do the post-Columbine tactic. Hides.
Yet somehow gun-owners are the "fascist enablers" and this is all our fault. Get the guns!
Rolls eyes.
My friend says, there's blood in the water this time. This is different.
I don't think so. This is going to backfire on CNN.
https://www.redstate.com/brandon_mor...ly-accomplish/