dunroving

And am I correct in thinking that at that time, they applied the WEP formula to ALL your foreign pensions - private, occupational, and state pension? I realise you said all were being paid, but wanted to ask this particular question explicitly.

The whole WEP thing is illogical when applied to foreign pensions, IMO.

dunroving

Sorry, what had you done at age 60? Told them you were receiving UK state pension?

[The age threw me for a second, but then realised of course that until recently UK pension age was 60 for women]

I'd be interested to know what the question asked you. If it asked are you receiving any non-SS pension, at age 62 you'd say no if you were male... but if it asks WILL you receive (or are you due to receive) any non-SS pensions, you'd say yes ... but then how would they know the date you start receiving it, and how much you will receive?

There's not enough oldies on the site! We need answers!

lansbury

My experience when I was told as I hadn't made any SS payments I couldn't claim Medicare, and my spouses payments didn't count, has left me a little cynical of their abilities.

theOAP

I'll answer here, not on the MBTTUK thread.

A slight misunderstanding of your question, which I take to be "Do I have to tell the SSA about any additional pensions after my first interview for WEP?".

Read the SSA info carefully. Somewhere (both on the site and on the forms you sign) it stipulates that you must tell the SSA of any change of circumstances that effect your benefit. Result of not telling and being discovered are reclamation of benefits already paid...blah, blah. As I read it, when a new pension becomes payable, you need to tell the SSA as it changes the WEP calculation. As always, I could be wrong.

If you play the straight arrow, and tell them at your points 2) and 3), my question (for which I don't know the answer) is:
A) Do they recalculate ALL pensions, past and present, at points 2) and 3), at the new exchange rate, or
B) Do they only calculate the new, additional pensions at the exchange rate at that time, and leave previous pensions at the amounts previously calculated?

Mallory

Since you can claim 50% of wife's SS, will you be WEP'd?

theOAP

Yes, they applied WEP to all pensions (State and occupational).

I have pensions (both State and occupational) from a third country in addition to the ones in the UK. I reached the max amount for WEP with just the UK occupational pension. They still wanted to know about the UK State Pension, and "made notes" about the pensions from the 3rd country.

If I remember correctly from the interview, they did ask if there would be any additional pensions at a later date.

dunroving

I deliberately didn't ask the question that way, but you could say that was the sort of information I was after.

My gut tells me they wouldn't recalculate the other pensions, but on reflection it wouldn't be that complicated - once they have the total non-SS from all sources, they just convert the currency, apply the WEP correction and Bob's your uncle.

And I suppose you could have a change of circumstances that leads to a reduction in your non-SS pension, so it could work in your favour.

[Sorry, another question - is that form available online? It would be interesting to see the exact wording]

theOAP

I doubt it. It was about 4 or 5 pages long and was very specific in recapping all the information you told them. (Several items, for example, were crossed out.)

jopavi73

When you originally apply for SS you are asked if you will be receiving any other pensions etc, they then adjust your monthly payment accordingly if you do not have a full 30 years of meaningful income in the US. I was not yet aware of this and as I was unemployed at 62 it was income and was all I was concerned about. Later, however, in doing research for applying for my UK pension I found that the US and UK have a treaty to share information. If I had not reported it they would have found out and probably penalized me further as I was 3 years short of the 30.

dunroving

OK, that's helpful to know. I wonder about the question that was asked earlier - whether, if SS is taken early it would not be WEP'ed until UK state pension (or other pensions) start to kick in later on?

As you are close to 30 years, you should only get WEP'ed a small amount. For those closer to 10 years (I'm at exactly 10 years/40 quarters), it seems like it doesn't take much non-SS pension to get WEP'ed a fair bit, but when I used the online WEP calculator, I found that it very quickly got to about 40%, then didn't change much after that even if I said I was getting $50k non-SS pension (which, unfortunately, I won't)

theOAP

I've dug out the old paperwork from the SSA for my application for US SS. I used the Federal Benefits Unit (FBU) at the London Embassy. My telephone interview was with the FBU. This occurred 6 years ago, so things may have changed. At the time of my interview, a recording was made by the FBU. On it, I swore that all the information given was complete and correct.

The file is 13 pages.

The first 3 pages are a letter from the FBU. In it is the following:

YOU MUST TELL US about:

ELIGIBILITY FOR A PENSION FROM WORK NOT COVERED BY SOCIAL SECURITY

If, after 1985, you become entitled to........(describes pensions not covered by SS)....
You need to let us know if you are in receipt of such a pension to avoid overpayment on your Social Security record.

The next 2 pages are a record of your telephone interview. It notes everything: current spouses name, when married, where, birthdate, etc.; ex-spouses name, date of marriage, how marriage ended, when, birth date, re-married, new name, address, etc.; and on and on.

Also listed is the following:
I am entitled to or I expect to become entitled to a pension or annuity based in whole or in part on work after 1956 not covered by Social Security.

I became entitled, or I expect to become entitled, to the pension or annuity beginning (date).

I became eligible, or I expect to become eligible, for the pension or annuity beginning (date).

It ends with the standard
I know that anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement..............commits a crime punishable under Federal Law by fine, imprisonment or both. I affirm that all information I have given in connection with this claim is true.

The next section is Form OMB No. 0960-0051, and is 4 pages long. This form is a "SUPPLEMENT TO CLAIM OF PERSON OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES". It ends with the normal "I declare under penalty of perjury......"

The last 4 pages gives the information on the foreign pensions attributing to the WEP calculation.

You also receive a questionnaire (Form 7162) form time to time, checking for any changes to your situation. It includes the following:
OTHER REPORTABLE EVENTS
In addition to the events listed on this form, you are responsible for reporting any other event that may affect benefit payments.


Question:
Will a interview done in rural Iowa for a person resident in the US be as in-depth? It should be, but.......

In answer to your question about starting US SS before the UK State Pension, and when does WEP start, I don't know the official answer but I would guess WEP would not be applied to the US SS until the UK State Pension was actually being paid. The questions/statements from my records indicates that I was asked about entitlement to any future foreign pensions when applying for US SS, and it becomes a part of the electronic record. There is also fine print on the forms relating to the SSA's right to contact foreign agencies for information.

jopavi73

When I took SS at 62 I was paid the full amount as if I had no other retirement income expected, I just didn't mention it.

When I started collecting in 2013 and advised them of that fact they applied WEP and it knocked off about 15% of my SS payment and a further $105 for the medicare premium each month. If you elect to go with a Part D prescription policy then there will be that too. All in all I'm receiving about 72% of what I was getting prior to 65 with the UK pension.

It worked out much better than I had feared.

dunroving

Thank you for digging all of this out - it does clear up things. As I expected, there is no loophole (i.e., it's not a one-time "current situation" type declaration, it includes declaration of future situations).

On the face of it, if someone could afford to hold off on other pensions, it might well make sense to do so, depending on how much they are likely to get WEP'ed. The reduction in SS for early retirement could well outweigh the additional (non-WEP) amount you would get between 62 and whenever you fully retire.

It would make more sense for the following situations:

Closer to 10 years of US SS contributions (because the correction factor is higher)
Higher amount of SS pension (because in absolute terms, the reduction would be higher - a given % reduction would mean a higher amount)
Higher non-SS pensions (because this would lead to a higher % reduction in US SS pension - up to a limit; it seems to reduce after a certain point, and has an upper limit of about 50% reduction)

The more of these categories you fall into, and the greater the extent to which you fall into these categories, the more sense it would make. Of course, if someone intended to actually retire at 62 (not work), then the feasibility of such a move would depend on sufficient savings to get by until "full" retirement (drawing on these other pensions), and/or a sufficiently high US SS pension to get by until "full" retirement.

dunroving

That's good to hear - though considering you were very close to the 30-year cutpoint for WEP exemption, I'm surprised it was as much as a 28% reduction.

Have you tried using the online WEP calculator to check whether their calculations are correct? Might be worth it.

robin1234

Dunroving, I think he's including his Medicare Part B premium of $105 a month in that 28% reduction, it was applied at the same time as the WEP.