Coronavirus and Health status
 

Will the poor health many Americans lead to a different course for the Coronavirus outbreak than the Chinese experienced? Two thirds of adults are overweight or obese with 1/3 of those obese. Children and teens have similar problem. Reports from NY suggest that younger adults are at significant risk. Does the U.K. have a similar problem with obesity and overall poor health? Factor in smoking and vaping and it looks even worse.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

The health profile, literally as well as figuratively, of the UK population is very similar to that of the US, but with a few percent more smokers. It was high 20's in the UK compared to about 20% in the US when I moved to the US 18 years ago.

Obviously smoking causes lung health concerns and vaping has been linked to lung damage, but I haven't heard if either are linked to "negative outcomes" with respect to Covid-19.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Currently over 25% of hospitalized patients in NYC are under 50.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

I suspect that people tend to drift away from NYC after the age of 30 and/or after they have children. Yes I know there are families in NYC, but trying to raise a family in NYC isn't for everyone, especially if their family isn't from NYC. Then there are people who leave NYC when they retire, either to realize the capital in their home, or look for cheaper rented accommodation, so NYC has a relatively low population of middle-aged, older, and/or retired people.

Anyway I suspect that the a profile of the population of NYC is skewed towards a younger population than for most other parts of the US, so I am not entirely surprised that 25% of people hospitalized are under 50.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Yes.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

America is certainly more obese, but smoking is much more common in China, especially among men (part of the reason they had a higher death rate than women there). Not to mention the poor air quality there can't be good for the lungs. It might be a toss-up. While I haven't heard obesity by itself cited as a risk factor, many of its potential consequences such as diabetes certainly are. The virus has taken its toll in Italy, and they're pretty healthy. Though I think they have a lot of smokers as well.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

One interesting study from Italy linked infection rates to air pollution. There is still a lot to learn, and I expect a lot of studies will find contradicting information.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

The data is already somewhat confusing, though Germany and Switzerland appear to be the countries with the highest per capita testing rates, which has lead to very low calculated mortality rates from the disease in those countries, ... which some will try to attribute to "quality healthcare". Other countries seem to only be testing people who are hospitalized, which seems to be leading to lower reported per capita infections, but a much higher mortality rate.

I think, once the disease subsides, it should be possible to shuffle the data, and estimate how many infections there actually in countries where testing was in not universally available, perhaps using Germany as a bench mark.

I will be interested to see if there are significant differences between countries using different health insurance models. Personally, I expect that there will be little or no difference between mortality in different countries on the scale between US (mostly private healthcare provision), and the UK where healthcare is provided almost exclusively under the direction and budgetary constraints of the government.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

On a video call last week with a colleague in Milan, the topic of the low German mortality rate came up. She did the most glorious Italian scoff before going on to explain that the Germans are counting "deaths caused" very differently to Italy and Spain (she claimed under-counting). This article offers some information on the topic. The part that my colleague had mentioned is that in Germany, patients are not being tested post-mortem: "Unlike in Italy, there is currently no widespread postmortem testing for the novel coronavirus in Germany. [...] As a result, it is theoretically possible that there could be people who may have died in their homes before being tested and who do not show up in the statistics." So yeah. If you collect information differently, the data is going to tell a different story.

As far as I can tell, this whole thing is a crash course for the world in how data can misrepresent the truth in a myriad of different ways. And that everyone really should have paid attention more in math class when we did exponential and logistic growth...


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...e2e2258c2c.jpg

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Radio programme last week was discussing vaping and Covid-19. In short there is no data available to draw any reliable conclusions, as neither have been researched to any extent.

It was noted though that the US had reports of youngsters suffering lung issues, we surely all remember the media interest before the Primaries sucked the air out of other news, and that the virus isn't good news for those with compromised lung function. The interviewee suggested that young vapers may be more susceptible and that countries, such as the US and UK with higher number of youngsters who vape rather than smoke may see higher numbers of complications in younger people than seen in previous hotspots. (Sorry no idea who the interviewee was as, for the most part, the radio is often background noise for me while I work and I don't catch programmes in their entirety, it was aired on a regional NPR channel).

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Vaping is far better for your lungs than smoking, there's no comparison. There's still nicotine which is thought to have some negative effects, but you don't have the tar which is the major issue for the lungs. The lung damage cases in the US were from black market THC vape cartridges. The UK has not had these issues. Vaping is the biggest public health opportunity in decades, the NHS is opening vape shops in hospitals. Unfortunately it's being squandered in the US by idiot politicians.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

I'd be interested in reading any medical research that proves that vaping does not damage immature lungs.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Maybe you are unfamiliar with Marlboro TV ads from the 1950's? They barely stopped short of advocating smoking Marlboros as a health treatment! :blink:

Personally I don't see how any good can come from inhaling high concentrations of a "natural" chemical that evolved in plants to act as an insecticide. :unsure:

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

This isn't a tangible good, rather than a personal experience but as an ex-smoker, I would be lying if I tried to tell you that I didn't enjoy the absolute hell out of it when I did it. Financial reasons, ultimately, were why I ended up quitting but I am glad of the improvement to my health that has resulted as well. I would also be lying if I said I wouldn't suck down an entire pack of B&H right bloody now if nobody would ever find out :o

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

A friend of mine’s daughter owns a vape shop. Most of her stuff comes from China. If vaping liquids was nicotine dissolved in mountain spring water it would be much better than smoking by far. But when you add in who knows what in the way of flavors, colors etc from a country that can’t make safe dog food I would be wary. I smoked for about 6 years when I was young and so glad I gave it up. After many years I have zero urge to ever smoke again.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Well the ugly issue to surface in the media today, is the differential rates of infections and deaths depending on race. Apparently 70% of deaths in Chicago are black, although they only make up 30% of the population, taking other races out of the equation, apparently the death rate in the black population is five times that of the white population!

Other areas of the US are reporting racial disparities. From an NYT article published today: "... North Carolina and South Carolina also have reported a ratio of black residents to white residents who have tested positive for the virus that well exceeds the general population ratio. Black people are overrepresented among those infected in the Las Vegas area and among people who have tested positive for the virus in Connecticut. ..."

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Since black folks tend to mainly socialize with other black folks, I can see such community spread causing a disparity. And, at least comparing working class blacks to middle class whites, it seems blacks tend to consume less news and may be 'behind the curve' in terms of practicing social distancing.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

I think you will find the reason is nothing to do with being "behind the curve" but a health issue. African American adults are more likely to have problems with diabetes and kidney failure . The more health problems you gave the harder it is to fight Covid-19.

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I guess I still don't know if those pre-existing conditions make one more likely to contract/test positive for the virus or just more likely to die from it.

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Also, I believe more blacks live in multi-generational households (like Italy?) thus putting seniors at risk. Historically, older blacks have had lower suicide rates than older whites, since they tend to have stronger community ties and less social isolation. But less atomization and isolation may mean greater risk in the current situation.

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Many low-paid people are in jobs which don't allow social distancing, and they can't afford to miss work- they only get paid to stay home once they test positive for the virus.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

There seems to be a general reluctance in the US to recognize that social distancing applies to family members too, not just strangers, acquaintances, coworkers, and neigbours, unlike the UK where it has been clear for a number of weeks that elderly people should shut themselves away whenever possible, and have either relatives, neighbours, or a commercial grocery delivery service, bring groceries to their doorstep, and that is what my mother is doing.

Whereas in the US, families seem to be commonly using the time when the schools are out to have the grand kids hang out with grandma and grandpa - that is certainly what a couple of my FB friends are doing, and similar to your observation about multi-generational homes, I suspect that this is more true of black families than white. Also Mrs P had to more or less tell her parents not to come to visit.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting that young people take up vaping. I only advocate it as a method to help people stop smoking. It's comes down to harm reduction. Vaping just isn't comparable to smoking in terms of health risk. You said that countries such as the UK/US where young people are more likely to vape instead of smoke might have a higher risk, whereas in reality it's the opposite; countries where people are more likely to smoke tobacco have a far, far greater risk. See the NHS advice page here: https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-an...e/e-cigarettes

The lung damage cases in the US were from illegal THC cartridges with vitamin E acetate, which is toxic when inhaled.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

I heard this the other day, from a black client I was talking with, that I suspect is far from unique either locally or across the US. A relative of hers works as a barber, and of course his barber's shop has been ordered closed for the past several weeks, even before the NC lock-down was announced. .... But he has been doing good business cutting hair at his clients' homes!!!! :blink:

Presumably this is some combination of "not getting reliable news", "not understanding the instructions and/or the seriousness of the situation", or for whatever reason thinking that the advice and instructions don't apply to them. :unsure:

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

There is lots of evidence to suggest that there is a linkage between:
- asthma
- diabetes
- uncontrolled hypertension
- heart disease
- COPD
and susceptibility to Covid-19.

The Surgeon General noted in a speech yesterday that all of these diseases are far more common in the black community than is generally true in the US and ascribed the vastly higher death rate from Covid-19 among black Americans to these diseases. He also discussed societal factors such as the lower rate of health insurance in the black community, the higher prevalence of service jobs that are most likely exposed the the disease and the poor state of healthcare in the black community as further contributing factors that have resulted in what we're seeing. The same was certainly true other respiratory disease like the H1N1 swine flu pandemic a decade ago.

I haven't seen any evidence that the infection rate among black Americans is higher than prevailing infection rates, but such data may in fact exist.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Very true. Amazon for example, basically impossible to social distance in a busy fulfillment center.

Here in Canada if you make 2,000 a month or less, your better off if you do get laid off, the government is providing 2,000 a month for those who lost their job due to COVID, and at typical hours per week and hourly wage for grocery store, fast food type jobs, those on CERB are making more not working than these lower paid workers still working in fast food, grocery stores etc.

Yeah grocery stores upped the pay $2/hr but what they failed to mention is they also cut stores hours and overall many employees lost hours, so they are making less despite being paid $2/hr more.

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

I can add an extra anecdotal spin to this. I work in a supermarket which serves a moderately affluent area with about a 75/25 split of white/ black people living there. I regularly see Instacart grocery shoppers in the store, doing the online orders as app-based gig work. Until the virus hit, their racial profile roughly matched that of the overall population.

That’s all changed in the last few weeks. Not only are there, naturally, FAR more gig workers doing other people’s shopping, but they are almost all black now. My guess is that the previous pool of shoppers were largely doing it as an extra household income - something fun and easy to do to save up for that special vacation or new car. But in these times, anyone with an otherwise livable household income, probably from a partner with a nice, safe-because-teleworking-now office job, has stopped. And by that, I mean the white people (and by people, I mostly mean women, as that’s who was mostly doing this job before).

The huge influx of new shoppers, both men and women now, is probably from people laid off from other restaurants and other service sector jobs. Their ability to access a livable level of unemployment benefit will be much less due to it being based on a tipped minimum wage, and their chances of having had the opportunity to build a comfortable emergency fund are laughable.

So yes, this virus is going to hit the black community far harder simply because many of them don’t have the sort of careers with a stable income that can effortlessly transition to teleworking, and they have no choice but to continue to work on the grocery store front line. Usually accompanied by their kids 😔