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ddsrph Mar 26th 2020 6:31 pm

Coronavirus and Health status
 
Will the poor health many Americans lead to a different course for the Coronavirus outbreak than the Chinese experienced? Two thirds of adults are overweight or obese with 1/3 of those obese. Children and teens have similar problem. Reports from NY suggest that younger adults are at significant risk. Does the U.K. have a similar problem with obesity and overall poor health? Factor in smoking and vaping and it looks even worse.

Pulaski Mar 26th 2020 7:34 pm

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 
The health profile, literally as well as figuratively, of the UK population is very similar to that of the US, but with a few percent more smokers. It was high 20's in the UK compared to about 20% in the US when I moved to the US 18 years ago.

Obviously smoking causes lung health concerns and vaping has been linked to lung damage, but I haven't heard if either are linked to "negative outcomes" with respect to Covid-19.

ddsrph Mar 26th 2020 11:29 pm

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 
Currently over 25% of hospitalized patients in NYC are under 50.

Pulaski Mar 27th 2020 12:16 am

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by ddsrph (Post 12827775)
Currently over 25% of hospitalized patients in NYC are under 50.

I suspect that people tend to drift away from NYC after the age of 30 and/or after they have children. Yes I know there are families in NYC, but trying to raise a family in NYC isn't for everyone, especially if their family isn't from NYC. Then there are people who leave NYC when they retire, either to realize the capital in their home, or look for cheaper rented accommodation, so NYC has a relatively low population of middle-aged, older, and/or retired people.

Anyway I suspect that the a profile of the population of NYC is skewed towards a younger population than for most other parts of the US, so I am not entirely surprised that 25% of people hospitalized are under 50.

BEVS Mar 27th 2020 6:47 am

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by ddsrph (Post 12827644)
Will the poor health many Americans lead to a different course for the Coronavirus outbreak than the Chinese experienced?

Yes.

ss120396 Mar 27th 2020 2:26 pm

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 
America is certainly more obese, but smoking is much more common in China, especially among men (part of the reason they had a higher death rate than women there). Not to mention the poor air quality there can't be good for the lungs. It might be a toss-up. While I haven't heard obesity by itself cited as a risk factor, many of its potential consequences such as diabetes certainly are. The virus has taken its toll in Italy, and they're pretty healthy. Though I think they have a lot of smokers as well.

OldJuddian Mar 30th 2020 12:26 am

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 
One interesting study from Italy linked infection rates to air pollution. There is still a lot to learn, and I expect a lot of studies will find contradicting information.

Pulaski Mar 30th 2020 1:58 am

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by OldJuddian (Post 12829186)
One interesting study from Italy linked infection rates to air pollution. There is still a lot to learn, and I expect a lot of studies will find contradicting information.

The data is already somewhat confusing, though Germany and Switzerland appear to be the countries with the highest per capita testing rates, which has lead to very low calculated mortality rates from the disease in those countries, ... which some will try to attribute to "quality healthcare". Other countries seem to only be testing people who are hospitalized, which seems to be leading to lower reported per capita infections, but a much higher mortality rate.

I think, once the disease subsides, it should be possible to shuffle the data, and estimate how many infections there actually in countries where testing was in not universally available, perhaps using Germany as a bench mark.

I will be interested to see if there are significant differences between countries using different health insurance models. Personally, I expect that there will be little or no difference between mortality in different countries on the scale between US (mostly private healthcare provision), and the UK where healthcare is provided almost exclusively under the direction and budgetary constraints of the government.

retzie Mar 30th 2020 4:19 am

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 
On a video call last week with a colleague in Milan, the topic of the low German mortality rate came up. She did the most glorious Italian scoff before going on to explain that the Germans are counting "deaths caused" very differently to Italy and Spain (she claimed under-counting). This article offers some information on the topic. The part that my colleague had mentioned is that in Germany, patients are not being tested post-mortem: "Unlike in Italy, there is currently no widespread postmortem testing for the novel coronavirus in Germany. [...] As a result, it is theoretically possible that there could be people who may have died in their homes before being tested and who do not show up in the statistics." So yeah. If you collect information differently, the data is going to tell a different story.

As far as I can tell, this whole thing is a crash course for the world in how data can misrepresent the truth in a myriad of different ways. And that everyone really should have paid attention more in math class when we did exponential and logistic growth...


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zzrmark Mar 31st 2020 3:47 am

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12827683)
The health profile, literally as well as figuratively, of the UK population is very similar to that of the US, but with a few percent more smokers. It was high 20's in the UK compared to about 20% in the US when I moved to the US 18 years ago.

Obviously smoking causes lung health concerns and vaping has been linked to lung damage, but I haven't heard if either are linked to "negative outcomes" with respect to Covid-19.

Radio programme last week was discussing vaping and Covid-19. In short there is no data available to draw any reliable conclusions, as neither have been researched to any extent.

It was noted though that the US had reports of youngsters suffering lung issues, we surely all remember the media interest before the Primaries sucked the air out of other news, and that the virus isn't good news for those with compromised lung function. The interviewee suggested that young vapers may be more susceptible and that countries, such as the US and UK with higher number of youngsters who vape rather than smoke may see higher numbers of complications in younger people than seen in previous hotspots. (Sorry no idea who the interviewee was as, for the most part, the radio is often background noise for me while I work and I don't catch programmes in their entirety, it was aired on a regional NPR channel).

ss120396 Mar 31st 2020 3:08 pm

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by zzrmark (Post 12830019)
The interviewee suggested that young vapers may be more susceptible and that countries, such as the US and UK with higher number of youngsters who vape rather than smoke may see higher numbers of complications in younger people than seen in previous hotspots.

Vaping is far better for your lungs than smoking, there's no comparison. There's still nicotine which is thought to have some negative effects, but you don't have the tar which is the major issue for the lungs. The lung damage cases in the US were from black market THC vape cartridges. The UK has not had these issues. Vaping is the biggest public health opportunity in decades, the NHS is opening vape shops in hospitals. Unfortunately it's being squandered in the US by idiot politicians.

zzrmark Apr 7th 2020 12:23 am

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by ss120396 (Post 12830365)
Vaping is far better for your lungs than smoking, there's no comparison.

I'd be interested in reading any medical research that proves that vaping does not damage immature lungs.

Pulaski Apr 7th 2020 5:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by ss120396 (Post 12830365)
Vaping is far better for your lungs than smoking, there's no comparison. ....

Maybe you are unfamiliar with Marlboro TV ads from the 1950's? They barely stopped short of advocating smoking Marlboros as a health treatment! :blink:

Personally I don't see how any good can come from inhaling high concentrations of a "natural" chemical that evolved in plants to act as an insecticide. :unsure:

SultanOfSwing Apr 7th 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12834793)
Personally I don't see how any good can come from inhaling high concentrations of a "natural" chemical that evolved in plants to act as an insecticide. :unsure:

This isn't a tangible good, rather than a personal experience but as an ex-smoker, I would be lying if I tried to tell you that I didn't enjoy the absolute hell out of it when I did it. Financial reasons, ultimately, were why I ended up quitting but I am glad of the improvement to my health that has resulted as well. I would also be lying if I said I wouldn't suck down an entire pack of B&H right bloody now if nobody would ever find out :o

ddsrph Apr 7th 2020 8:08 pm

Re: Coronavirus and Health status
 
A friend of mine’s daughter owns a vape shop. Most of her stuff comes from China. If vaping liquids was nicotine dissolved in mountain spring water it would be much better than smoking by far. But when you add in who knows what in the way of flavors, colors etc from a country that can’t make safe dog food I would be wary. I smoked for about 6 years when I was young and so glad I gave it up. After many years I have zero urge to ever smoke again.


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