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Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Old Mar 1st 2016, 11:00 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Which is why those pointing towards Norway as an example to follow don't make much sense.

The two biggest complaints most people have about 'Europe' - unrestricted immigration from EU countries and the role of the ECHR in overturning British legal decisions - would be wholly unaffected by Brexit as the UK would continue to be a member of the EEA and CoE respectively.
The irony is that British politicians wrote most of the EU structures that the British politicians are now complaining about (e.g. European convention on human rights).
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Old Mar 1st 2016, 11:17 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
The irony is that British politicians wrote most of the EU structures that the British politicians are now complaining about (e.g. European convention on human rights).
The Brexiters', UKIP in particular, use of Churchill in their advertising in particular is particularly ironic given that he was a driving force behind both the EU and the European Convention on Human Rights.

"We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living."
19 September 1946, Zürich

"The Movement for European Unity must be a positive force, deriving its strength from our sense of common spiritual values. It is a dynamic expression of democratic faith based upon moral conceptions and inspired by a sense of mission. In the centre of our movement stands the idea of a Charter of Human Rights, guarded by freedom and sustained by law."
7 May 1948, Den Haag

Last edited by BritInParis; Mar 1st 2016 at 11:52 pm. Reason: Typo
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Old Mar 1st 2016, 11:51 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Steve_
You clearly haven't read up on the mess their referendum on leaving Schengen caused.
But they are doing fine being despite not being in the E.U. though.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 2:17 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
The irony is that British politicians wrote most of the EU structures that the British politicians are now complaining about (e.g. European convention on human rights).
The complaint is about the extension of "rights" into areas they weren't ever expected to apply, like voting rights for prisoners, like the right to family life allowing foreign murderers and rapists to remain in the UK.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 2:37 am
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
The Brexiters', UKIP in particular, use of Churchill in their advertising in particular is particularly ironic given that he was a driving force behind both the EU and the European Convention on Human Rights.

"We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living." ....
That is more than a little disingenuous - while Churchill encouraged a "United States of Europe" he does not appear to have intended that Britain be part of it!
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 2:39 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Pulaski
That is more than a little disingenuous - while Churchill encouraged a "United States of Europe" he does not appear to have intended that Britain be part of it!
Exactly. I believe Churchill said Great Britain was "Of Europe" not "In Europe", what he didn't want to see was the forces of evil destroying European civilisation.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 4:51 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
The Brexiters', UKIP in particular, use of Churchill in their advertising in particular is particularly ironic given that he was a driving force behind both the EU and the European Convention on Human Rights.

"We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living."
19 September 1946, Zürich

"The Movement for European Unity must be a positive force, deriving its strength from our sense of common spiritual values. It is a dynamic expression of democratic faith based upon moral conceptions and inspired by a sense of mission. In the centre of our movement stands the idea of a Charter of Human Rights, guarded by freedom and sustained by law."
7 May 1948, Den Haag
There's an interesting article about Churchill’s call for a ‘United States of Europe’ here:
Winston Churchill: A founder of the European Union | EU ROPE

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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 8:08 am
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Pulaski
That is more than a little disingenuous - while Churchill encouraged a "United States of Europe" he does not appear to have intended that Britain be part of it!
Originally Posted by steveq
Exactly. I believe Churchill said Great Britain was "Of Europe" not "In Europe", what he didn't want to see was the forces of evil destroying European civilisation.
Ted Heath would disagree.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 8:57 am
  #24  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

The UK won't be leaving any time soon, but I do believe it will leave eventually, but under very different circumstances.

When the "United States of Europe" finally realises its end-game, it won't be nearly as fragile, nor fearsome of existential risk from a "brexit". Britain's independence will be considered a foregone conclusion, a natural evolution, and without controversy. The two will remain very close friends, but Britain will always remain independent and never become a province.

Notwithstanding of course, if labour returns to power and willingly hands Britain over to Brussels and Frankfurt.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 11:57 am
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Ted Heath would disagree.
Yeah, well he was the buffoon that got Britain involved in the whole mess!
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 3:01 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Yeah, well he was the buffoon that got Britain involved in the whole mess!
There is that, and I remember what was said at the time and what happened.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 3:06 pm
  #27  
 
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Boiler
There is that, and I remember what was said at the time and what happened.
I wasn't, but my father briefed me later.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 3:32 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Which is why those pointing towards Norway as an example to follow don't make much sense.

The two biggest complaints most people have about 'Europe' - unrestricted immigration from EU countries and the role of the ECHR in overturning British legal decisions - would be wholly unaffected by Brexit as the UK would continue to be a member of the EEA and CoE respectively.
That is what is so hilarious... the major difference will be that the UK has no say in forming rules that it would have to abide by as an EEA country as opposed to at least having some influence now. My prediction is that the UK will vote to leave the EU, the plebs will then be sorely disappointed at the consequences and Scotland will hold another referendum which will be in favour of leaving the UK.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 5:39 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
That is what is so hilarious... the major difference will be that the UK has no say in forming rules that it would have to abide by as an EEA country as opposed to at least having some influence now. My prediction is that the UK will vote to leave the EU, the plebs will then be sorely disappointed at the consequences and Scotland will hold another referendum which will be in favour of leaving the UK.
Scots are heavily Brexit.
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Old Mar 2nd 2016, 5:42 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Boiler
Scots are heavily Brexit.
Link?

The SNP are heavily anti-Brexit. Of course, it could be that Scots will vote Brexit because they believe this will bring about a second referendum...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...h-live-7462676

Last edited by Giantaxe; Mar 2nd 2016 at 5:44 pm.
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