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Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Old Jun 20th 2016, 9:50 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by yellowroom
the message (Brexit would not significantly affect immigration) is out there, however it's a different matter on whether people hear it above all the other shouting going on.
See what you mean. That is likely true. I'm not there so not bombarded .
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Old Jun 20th 2016, 9:55 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

This is a small extract from the Guardian today. Again raises the question on if EEA is a viable option after Brexit.

If Brexit becomes a reality, there are a number of possible scenarios. Anthony Robinson, principal campaigns and communications adviser at the Confederation of British Industry (CBI), says that becoming one of the European Economic Area (EEA) states comes with its own challenges: “[It] would enable us to remain in the single market, but we would have no influence over the rules, we would still have to pay [a financial contribution] and accept free movement of people. It’s hard to see this as a valid option given the arguments for leaving revolve around immigration, cost and sovereignty.”

Leave or remain? The impact Brexit would have on UK jobs | Guardian Careers | The Guardian
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Old Jun 20th 2016, 9:56 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by mrken30
I am still unsure whether the UK would join the EEA or just go off on its own and use WTO agreements. Does Brexit mean pulling out of everything Europe?
Nope. The question is regarding our membership of the European Union. There's still the Council of Europe (and therefore the European Court of Human Rights so we still wouldn't be able to deport people to dodgy countries), the EU Customs Union and the EEA which the government would have no mandate to leave. 'Europe' is far more than the European Union. Have a look at this Venn diagram:

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Old Jun 20th 2016, 10:00 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Thats a great picture.

This is an interesting list of a lot of the potential tax changes

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/bre...for-the-32013/

Last edited by mrken30; Jun 20th 2016 at 10:08 pm.
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Old Jun 20th 2016, 11:56 pm
  #155  
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Nope. The question is regarding our membership of the European Union. There's still the Council of Europe (and therefore the European Court of Human Rights so we still wouldn't be able to deport people to dodgy countries), the EU Customs Union and the EEA which the government would have no mandate to leave. 'Europe' is far more than the European Union. Have a look at this Venn diagram:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Bodies-en.png
Is that Vatican on the right, that mints euros but isn't a member of anything else?
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Old Jun 20th 2016, 11:58 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by robin1234
Is that Vatican on the right, that mints euros but isn't a member of anything else?
It is. I know they used to use the lira, so I guess there's a kind of logic that they can mint euros like other users of the currency.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Jun 21st 2016 at 12:03 am.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 12:14 am
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by robin1234
Is that Vatican on the right, that mints euros but isn't a member of anything else?
Originally Posted by Giantaxe
It is. I know they used to use the lira, so I guess there's a kind of logic that they can mint euros like other users of the currency.
Yep, it's the Vatican, but they're not in general circulation, just sold as collectors sets. Previously they used the Vatican lira which was pegged to the Italian lira. When Italy joined the Euro in 1999 they followed suit.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 4:36 am
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Nope. The question is regarding our membership of the European Union. There's still the Council of Europe (and therefore the European Court of Human Rights so we still wouldn't be able to deport people to dodgy countries), the EU Customs Union and the EEA which the government would have no mandate to leave. 'Europe' is far more than the European Union. .
Re. MrKen's question:
Key part of above being section I bolded. Currently government has no mandate to leave the EEA.

So what would it take to leave the EEA if it was later pushed for? New legislation? Parliamentary vote?
Can we assume that was the ultimate, (if presently unspoken) agenda for those at the very top the Brexit ladder?
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 9:03 am
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by jmood
Re. MrKen's question:
Key part of above being section I bolded. Currently government has no mandate to leave the EEA.

So what would it take to leave the EEA if it was later pushed for? New legislation? Parliamentary vote?
Can we assume that was the ultimate, (if presently unspoken) agenda for those at the very top the Brexit ladder?
Parliament is sovereign so it doesn't need a referendum to take us in or out of any agreement. Likewise it can choose to ignore the results of Thursday's referendum if it chooses to do so. Both the government and a large majority of MPs wish to Remain and therefore it's entirely plausible that the UK leaves the EU but rejoins EFTA and thus remains part of the EEA as a 'EU lite' option.

The direction of the negotiations will depend a lot on Conservative Party internal politics.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by BritInParis
The direction of the negotiations will depend a lot on Conservative Party internal politics.
What made Cameron set up a referendum in the first place? Could he have just left Pandora's box alone?
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 6:19 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by jmood
What made Cameron set up a referendum in the first place? Could he have just left Pandora's box alone?
I'm curious of this question too.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 6:42 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Gozit
I'm curious of this question too.

According to the Beeb, The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know - BBC News :

Prime Minister David Cameron promised to hold one if he won the 2015 general election, in response to growing calls from his own Conservative MPs and the UK Independence Party (UKIP), who argued that Britain had not had a say since 1975, when it voted to stay in the EU in a referendum. The EU has changed a lot since then, gaining more control over our daily lives, they argued. Mr Cameron said: "It is time for the British people to have their say. It is time to settle this European question in British politics."
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 6:53 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Nutmegger
According to the Beeb, The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know - BBC News :

Prime Minister David Cameron promised to hold one if he won the 2015 general election, in response to growing calls from his own Conservative MPs and the UK Independence Party (UKIP), who argued that Britain had not had a say since 1975, when it voted to stay in the EU in a referendum. The EU has changed a lot since then, gaining more control over our daily lives, they argued. Mr Cameron said: "It is time for the British people to have their say. It is time to settle this European question in British politics."
Cameron is glossing over some things there, including that his promise of a referendum was made at a time UKIP was gaining support and some Conservative MPs were threatening to defect to them.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by Nutmegger

Prime Minister David Cameron promised to hold one if he won the 2015 general election, in response to growing calls from his own Conservative MPs and the UK Independence Party (UKIP), who argued that Britain had not had a say since 1975, when it voted to stay in the EU in a referendum. The EU has changed a lot since then, gaining more control over our daily lives, they argued. Mr Cameron said: "It is time for the British people to have their say. It is time to settle this European question in British politics."
I'd already read this when I asked the question of why he couldn't have left Pandora's box alone. Didn't make sense to me.

I mean, him being strongly of the remain opinion and being relatively well knowledgeable of the how "wise" the general public is, was it a simple task of looking like a good, fair guy that made him do it. Or some other politics? It was (IS) a huge risk if he really believes leaving is bad for the country. He could have fought tooth and nail in the opposite direction - i.e. no need for any voting on the matter.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 8:22 pm
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Default Re: Consequences of the UK leaving Europe

Originally Posted by jmood
I'd already read this when I asked the question of why he couldn't have left Pandora's box alone. Didn't make sense to me.

I mean, him being strongly of the remain opinion and being relatively well knowledgeable of the how "wise" the general public is, was it a simple task of looking like a good, fair guy that made him do it. Or some other politics? It was (IS) a huge risk if he really believes leaving is bad for the country. He could have fought tooth and nail in the opposite direction - i.e. no need for any voting on the matter.
This article from The Economist contains their (not very flattering) view of Cameron's tactics:

The Battle of Evermore | The Economist

And good to see The Economist is a Led Zeppelin fan :-)
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