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Car problems - is there any help out there?

Car problems - is there any help out there?

Old Jul 19th 2018, 6:21 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Who determined it has a blown head gasket and how did they determined that fact? Is water getting into the oil? Is the cooling system becoming pressurized? Can you hear a compression leak? Was a compression test done?After you got the car back following the 1500 repair did it seriously overheat while driving it during the 500 miles? Replacing a hose and “valve” which could have been the thermostat or maybe the valve that directs water to the cars heater didn’t fix the problem nor did it cause the head gasket to blow unless the car was driven in an overheated condition which is the responsibility of the driver to not let that happen.
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Old Jul 19th 2018, 6:37 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by Marc_ely
It might be time to talk to an attorney? A decent one will give you 1/2hr of their time just to listen to your story and look at any evidence (papers etc) you may have. If they think you have a claim they will offer to assist. If they think you don't have much chance they will walk away.
It certainly wouldn't hurt to do so, if the OP can get something in writing from the place that saw the car after it blew up to back up a dealership failure case then there might be a positive result. 500 miles might be a bit of a sticking point.
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Old Jul 19th 2018, 6:54 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by ddsrph
Who determined it has a blown head gasket and how did they determined that fact? Is water getting into the oil? Is the cooling system becoming pressurized? Can you hear a compression leak? Was a compression test done?After you got the car back following the 1500 repair did it seriously overheat while driving it during the 500 miles? Replacing a hose and “valve” which could have been the thermostat or maybe the valve that directs water to the cars heater didn’t fix the problem nor did it cause the head gasket to blow unless the car was driven in an overheated condition which is the responsibility of the driver to not let that happen.
Note that in the OP's first post, they state that the car was overheating, which may well have caused an issue with the head, or even been because of an issue with the head. For 1500 bucks I'd expect an all singing and dancing rectification that assertained the head integrity but we are talking about a Florida main dealer here and from what little I've seen of main dealers in this State I wouldn't trust any of them with my vehicle.

I was tempted to ask the same damage questions that you posted but if the OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place it doesn't really matter whether they are looking at only a new gasket and head skim or a full rebuild.
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Old Jul 19th 2018, 7:05 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

It was my actual mechanic who said the head gasket has gone, then I had it towed from his place back to the guys who did the 1500 worth of work. The Hyundai mechanic said they didn't do a block test (which is what the other mechanic said to ask about) but they did a pressure test when they replaced the hose.

From picking it up, until Tuesday night when it overheated again, there hadn't been any lights on and no signs of overheating.

Is there a certain kind of attorney I'd need to speak to? I know theres property lawyers, are there car lawyers or something similar?
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Old Jul 19th 2018, 7:33 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

$1500 is way out of line for what was done no question. Does the car have a temp
gauge or just a warning light? When either one indicated a problem the thing to do is stop the car, allow to cool down, remove the radiator cap and check coolant level. Did you do this and was the level low? After adding more coolant if required did this temporarily fix the problem? I have owned plenty of junk in my life and have had every overheating problem you can have from blown head gasket, stuck closed thermostat, busted hose, failed water pump, but in each case it is required to not continue driving when the engine is overheated. You can most likely make a case of being overcharged but not for damage from driving when overheated causing further damage.
If you decide to do something thru legal action look into small claims court. No lawyer needed and a small filing fee. Works like you see onTV (judge Judy etc)

Last edited by ddsrph; Jul 19th 2018 at 8:55 pm.
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Old Jul 20th 2018, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

The first time the check engine light and temp light came on, the gauge never went over half way.
The 2nd time, the gauge went all the way to the top, but as I was only 10mins from the mechanics I figured I could make it there. Apparently that wasn't the case
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Old Jul 20th 2018, 5:24 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by Southy_SWFC
The first time the check engine light and temp light came on, the gauge never went over half way.
The 2nd time, the gauge went all the way to the top, but as I was only 10mins from the mechanics I figured I could make it there. Apparently that wasn't the case
If that was the case the best thing to do is try to get the best outcome without incurring more expense and still end up with no car.
By getting that hot there is a good chance the head is warped and maybe damage to cylinders. (Did the car make it to the mechanic during that last 10minutes and did it seem to lose power indicating a partial engine seizure). I personally would have no confidence in that engine and would be reluctant to spend 2 or 3 thousand on it. As an alternative you could look into trying to get a used engine out of a wrecked car. It may be that the same engine is still being put into much newer cars and finding a newer low mileage engine may be possible. I would only consider this if you have a trusted mechanic who will help find the engine and install for a reasonable price. It may just be best to sell the car for parts and buy something else.
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Old Jul 21st 2018, 8:16 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

It made it to the mechanic fine, though the AC shut off. That mechanic said there was warping and the head gasket had gone. Thats when I had it towed to the dealership.
The dealer recommends a new engine, from an old car, as you suggested. They quoted $6000. $3600 for the engine and the rest in labour/tax.
At this point we're exploring buying a new car, though I don't know if it'll happen with owing so much on this one, plus the price of a new car.
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Old Jul 21st 2018, 10:43 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by Southy_SWFC
It made it to the mechanic fine, though the AC shut off. That mechanic said there was warping and the head gasket had gone. Thats when I had it towed to the dealership.
The dealer recommends a new engine, from an old car, as you suggested. They quoted $6000. $3600 for the engine and the rest in labour/tax.
At this point we're exploring buying a new car, though I don't know if it'll happen with owing so much on this one, plus the price of a new car.
If it's just a head warped and shot head gasket an independent should be able to skim the head and replace the gasket, what you need to know is if there was any oil ingress into the cooling system (PITA to clean out but not impossible) or water into the engine, not tricky to clean out but can bugger internal bits - a good mechanic will be able to see where exactly the head gasket has failed and where fluids will have headed if they remove the head.
None of that would be advisable doing through a dealer, an independent might be able to find and install a replacement engine for less than the dealership.

As an aside, I looked into the 'active flap', this is basically an expensive shutter for the front grille which closes when the car goes into electric mode and helps reduce air drag. Hence why the original bill was high (although there are stories posted on the net of being charged in the 1600's just for the flap your dealer would appear to have applied reasonable (ish)charges.
This would suggest that the old one was seizing, possibly in the closed position, which would overheat the engine in gas mode, a leakdown test should have been applied on the first round of tests which might give you some grounds if you take the legal route.

Good luck.
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Old Jul 21st 2018, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by King Gimp
If you have the Hyundai hybrid its likely only the dealer can fix it. I've had a shit ton of problems with a Hyundai that's still under warranty trying to get things fixed.

Good luck with it.

I'd lose the car and get something else easier to fix.
I have had 4 new Hyundais since 2003. Of course, none of them were hybrids. I've never ever had a mechanical issue with any of the 4 of them and I have never ever used the dealer for any oil change, tune up, brakes or state inspections.
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Old Jul 22nd 2018, 1:13 am
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

The dealer charges sounds much better with the new information. My biggest concern with trying to fix the engine is it was driven several miles with the temp gauge pegged. Hot enough to warp head. This could have caused other problems with the engine such as cylinder scoring from near seizing. It’s now a matter of how much chance do you want to take that spending two or three thousand on new or rebuilt head and the labor may be lost if other damage has been done to the engine. If the dealer replaces the engine and offers a written mileage guarantee that may be better than a small time mechanic who can’t really afford a redo.
I would be reluctant to blame the dealer because the real problem came from not heeding the over temp warning and continuing to drive in a highly overheated condition.
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Old Jul 22nd 2018, 2:10 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by ddsrph
The dealer charges sounds much better with the new information. My biggest concern with trying to fix the engine is it was driven several miles with the temp gauge pegged. Hot enough to warp head. This could have caused other problems with the engine such as cylinder scoring from near seizing. It’s now a matter of how much chance do you want to take that spending two or three thousand on new or rebuilt head and the labor may be lost if other damage has been done to the engine. If the dealer replaces the engine and offers a written mileage guarantee that may be better than a small time mechanic who can’t really afford a redo.
I would be reluctant to blame the dealer because the real problem came from not heeding the over temp warning and continuing to drive in a highly overheated condition.
I agree, partly.
Easy to say after the event but if your engine overheats you need to stop immediately and let it cool down, which will take a while.
The dealer has possibly failed in their service regime but only an unbiased independent second opinion from someone who has stuck their head under the hood will be able to tell you that. Any mechanic worth his salt should also be able to tell you where which fluids headed when the head gasket gave up when he/ she removes the head - I will hazard a guess that the dealership has not done so but performed a leakdown test which will give some information but not the full picture.
A dealer warranted replacement engine is the quickest, surest option of a reliable working engine but I do know that financial limitations can mean the best result is not always an option. I appreciate that my situation is considerably different from many in that I have always done my own work, including barrel honing, valve regrinding and, until I moved to this country, my own tire replacement, the only job I have ever given to other engineers is skimming heads and rebalancing/pressing crankshafts.

I would prefer not to take things as far as the legal option (mostly due to a lower opinion of lawyers than that of car dealers) and would try to come to some arrangement directly with the dealership. I would not expect them to foot the full bill because a considerable amount of damage has occurred through user error, and every manual will tell a driver which dash lights they can ignore and which they can't. Without knowing the extent of negligence, if any, on the dealers part it is impossible to say how far they are willing to help you before seeking outside representation.
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Old Jul 22nd 2018, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

ZZ
I agree. I would keep the dealer relation as cordial as possible and try to get a reduction in price on future work due to the recent large expenditure not fixing the problem. Their is no perfect answer on what is best to do next.
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Old Jul 22nd 2018, 10:57 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by ddsrph
The dealer charges sounds much better with the new information. My biggest concern with trying to fix the engine is it was driven several miles with the temp gauge pegged. Hot enough to warp head.
Sadly even skimming an overheated head may not fix future issues - Aluminium heads are heattreated to improve the properties of the casting - cooking one can anneal the head, and soften it to unusability, like the valve guides start to loosen. The Landrover Disco 1 200 TDi was notorious for dying like that.
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Old Jul 23rd 2018, 1:06 am
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Default Re: Car problems - is there any help out there?

Originally Posted by steveq
Sadly even skimming an overheated head may not fix future issues - Aluminium heads are heattreated to improve the properties of the casting - cooking one can anneal the head, and soften it to unusability, like the valve guides start to loosen. The Landrover Disco 1 200 TDi was notorious for dying like that.
True, which will be why the OP needs to find a mechanic he can trust and should any engineering work be required that he can trust that mechanic to find a good engineer.

Most Disco1 owners were busy repairing the back end chassis and bodywork, which rotted at the first sniff of damp weather, long before they had to start messing with the head.
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