Ancestry DNA
#91
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,851
re: Ancestry DNA
I'm with Octang on this one - shock! horror! - particularly in the light of law enforcement use of such DNA databases. All very troubling.
#93
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
re: Ancestry DNA
Oh, Rete...
Let me guess, if you've done nothing wrong, you shouldn't have anything to hide, right?
You know you unknowingly commit several felonies a day?
I can't comprehend how you could possibly think that having a global DNA registry wouldn't be abused? Just on basic principle, why would you voluntarily *ever* give your personal information to another party - either government or corporate? It *never* ends well.
Data gets abused every time, whether it's Facebook, insurance companies, the government. Have we learned nothing from what is currently going on?
Have you been following what's going in positively dystopian China? They are working on a network of 600 million facial recognition cameras, as part of their "social credit score" system.
Chinese journalist banned from buying property, flying, using trains, putting his kids in private schools because he offended someone.
China Assigns Every Citizen A ‘Social Credit Score’ « CBS New York
It gets so wearisome that people just willingly give up their rights to the state.
If you're that foolish, you'll get what you deserve. And then some.
Watching the Alfie Evans thing unfold was just repugnant, for two reasons.
1. The state owns the child, and dictates what the parents can and cannot do. Abhorrent.
2. The classism and hatred displayed by people to Liverpudlians. It's Hillsborough all over. Shudder.
I don't wish any ill fortune on you Rete, but I'll aver you won't be thinking it's such a good idea when you can't get coverage in three or five years time.
Let me guess, if you've done nothing wrong, you shouldn't have anything to hide, right?
You know you unknowingly commit several felonies a day?
I can't comprehend how you could possibly think that having a global DNA registry wouldn't be abused? Just on basic principle, why would you voluntarily *ever* give your personal information to another party - either government or corporate? It *never* ends well.
Data gets abused every time, whether it's Facebook, insurance companies, the government. Have we learned nothing from what is currently going on?
Have you been following what's going in positively dystopian China? They are working on a network of 600 million facial recognition cameras, as part of their "social credit score" system.
Chinese journalist banned from buying property, flying, using trains, putting his kids in private schools because he offended someone.
China Assigns Every Citizen A ‘Social Credit Score’ « CBS New York
It gets so wearisome that people just willingly give up their rights to the state.
If you're that foolish, you'll get what you deserve. And then some.
Watching the Alfie Evans thing unfold was just repugnant, for two reasons.
1. The state owns the child, and dictates what the parents can and cannot do. Abhorrent.
2. The classism and hatred displayed by people to Liverpudlians. It's Hillsborough all over. Shudder.
I don't wish any ill fortune on you Rete, but I'll aver you won't be thinking it's such a good idea when you can't get coverage in three or five years time.
#94
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
re: Ancestry DNA
Is there not a fundamental philosophical and legal principle that we're all innocent until proven guilty?
By having our DNA harvested by the state, we are essentially saying we're all criminals - either currently, or soon-to-be. As a liberty loving person, how can you not see that is arse-backwards? That we're all suspects and probable offenders.
The state does not obey the law. Despite being legally compelled to remove the mugshots of millions of innocent people, the UK police won't do it because "it's too expensive". Try that excuse next time you have a parking or speeding ticket.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8310896.html
By having our DNA harvested by the state, we are essentially saying we're all criminals - either currently, or soon-to-be. As a liberty loving person, how can you not see that is arse-backwards? That we're all suspects and probable offenders.
The state does not obey the law. Despite being legally compelled to remove the mugshots of millions of innocent people, the UK police won't do it because "it's too expensive". Try that excuse next time you have a parking or speeding ticket.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8310896.html
#95
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,851
re: Ancestry DNA
Is there not a fundamental philosophical and legal principle that we're all innocent until proven guilty?
By having our DNA harvested by the state, we are essentially saying we're all criminals - either currently, or soon-to-be. As a liberty loving person, how can you not see that is arse-backwards? That we're all suspects and probable offenders.
The state does not obey the law. Despite being legally compelled to remove the mugshots of millions of innocent people, the UK police won't do it because "it's too expensive". Try that excuse next time you have a parking or speeding ticket.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8310896.html
By having our DNA harvested by the state, we are essentially saying we're all criminals - either currently, or soon-to-be. As a liberty loving person, how can you not see that is arse-backwards? That we're all suspects and probable offenders.
The state does not obey the law. Despite being legally compelled to remove the mugshots of millions of innocent people, the UK police won't do it because "it's too expensive". Try that excuse next time you have a parking or speeding ticket.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8310896.html
#96
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
re: Ancestry DNA
Rete, philosophical question for you (not singling you out; others feel free to chime in).
Do you think it's better that 10 guilty men go free, than one innocent man is wrongly convicted?
Do you think it's better that 10 guilty men go free, than one innocent man is wrongly convicted?
#98
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
re: Ancestry DNA
The UK also used to keep DNA samples of anyone arrested, regardless of whether they were charged or convicted. They changed that policy in 2012 to delete such DNA. In a way, being able to access these "public" DNA databases is a potential end-run around those restrictions.
I don't think they did. I read one journalist's attempt to get his DNA deleted.
There was no process, and he eventually had to just trust some policeman who told them it was deleted. There was no proof.
Looks like they didn't comply. As if I were surprised...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...er-admits.html
Last edited by Octang Frye; Apr 30th 2018 at 9:18 pm.
#99
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,851
re: Ancestry DNA
Is there any evidence they actually complied and deleted the DNA?
I don't think they did. I read one journalist's attempt to get his DNA deleted.
There was no process, and he eventually had to just trust some policeman who told them it was deleted. There was no proof.
Looks like they didn't comply. As if I were surprised...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...er-admits.html
I don't think they did. I read one journalist's attempt to get his DNA deleted.
There was no process, and he eventually had to just trust some policeman who told them it was deleted. There was no proof.
Looks like they didn't comply. As if I were surprised...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...er-admits.html
#100
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
re: Ancestry DNA
I found something.
United Kingdom - FDNAPI Wiki
"The UK’s Coalition Government adopted the Protection of Freedoms Act on 1st of May 2012, which came in to force at the end of October 2013. The DNA profiles and fingerprints of more than 1.7 million innocent people and children have been removed from police databases and more than 7.7 million DNA samples have also been destroyed."
It doesn't say when.
United Kingdom - FDNAPI Wiki
"The UK’s Coalition Government adopted the Protection of Freedoms Act on 1st of May 2012, which came in to force at the end of October 2013. The DNA profiles and fingerprints of more than 1.7 million innocent people and children have been removed from police databases and more than 7.7 million DNA samples have also been destroyed."
It doesn't say when.
#101
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,851
re: Ancestry DNA
Back to the Golden State Killer... there will presumably be legal challenges to the DNA evidence collected from that "public" DNA database. Going to be interesting to see how that plays out.
#102
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
re: Ancestry DNA
Unreasonable search and seizure? Probably cause?
I initially thought they went through his trash and got a tissue or something like that. The specific words used were "discarded DNA".
I initially thought they went through his trash and got a tissue or something like that. The specific words used were "discarded DNA".
#103
re: Ancestry DNA
AIUI the police uploaded the suspect's DNA, collected from the original investigation, to a genealogical site and then used the matches they received to fairly distant relatives of the suspect to narrow down their search.
This doesn't seem very different to me from cases where they police have been able to make partial DNA matches to arrested other suspects' DNA which tell them that their suspect is a relative of the other suspects and allows them to narrow down their searches.
I really don't see what the objection could be to this.
This doesn't seem very different to me from cases where they police have been able to make partial DNA matches to arrested other suspects' DNA which tell them that their suspect is a relative of the other suspects and allows them to narrow down their searches.
I really don't see what the objection could be to this.
#104
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,452
re: Ancestry DNA
I just had a quick look through news articles, and I don't think there's any additional specific information on this aspect yet. So I'm assuming hair, Kleenex, toenail clippings or similar...
#105
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598