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9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Old Feb 19th 2014, 12:44 am
  #256  
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by dlake02
Sorry - I've had a bucket full this week. And yes, I didn't get the sarcasm, and that's entirely my fault. Whoops :-)

My wife was taken ill last week whilst we were still in the US and whilst she was in bed, in agony, the hospital called up and said "just thought we'd let you know that whilst the procedure is covered on your 90% plan, the doctors aren't, so you will need to find $12,500 for your operation TOMORROW or else we can't do it..." Now, I know this is the wrong forum, but when you get that kind of treatment from the happy, smiley, have-a-nice-day land, it does put one in a bad mood. Does anyone CARE one jot about their fellow citizen here ? Nope - didn't think so...
Sorry to hear that, unfortunately I have spent a lot of time enjoying the delights of the US healthcare and billing process over the past 18 months so I know exactly how you feel.
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 1:08 am
  #257  
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by hungryhorace
They're all too busy being brain washed. I think when I have kids, I will have to seriously think about moving back to England. I could not live knowing they would be brainwashed at school with pro American bullshit without any thought for their fellow humans well being.
OK - serious question now. When does that brain-washing happen because it's not a Middle School (as far as I can tell). In fact, my son's history teacher was lecturing on the fall of the Roman Empire and how the US was next a few weeks back....

Is the "USA, USA" mentality more engrained at high school/college ?
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 1:16 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by dlake02
OK - serious question now. When does that brain-washing happen because it's not a Middle School (as far as I can tell). In fact, my son's history teacher was lecturing on the fall of the Roman Empire and how the US was next a few weeks back....

Is the "USA, USA" mentality more engrained at high school/college ?
There is no ****ing brain washing. Are you certifiable? Oh yes, I forgot, one teacher and anecdotal evidence constitutes absolute proof.

Jesus
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 1:32 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
There is no ****ing brain washing. Are you certifiable? Oh yes, I forgot, one teacher and anecdotal evidence constitutes absolute proof.

Jesus
Ah, that first year or two of being here before the brain-washing takes effect.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685523
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 1:42 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
Ah, that first year or two of being here before the brain-washing takes effect.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685523
Ignoring the method by which the violence is applied, the USA ranks as the most violent "developed" nation by a very long way:

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/c...ce/by-country/

92nd out of 192. Most of the EU states are around the 160 out of 192 mark (UK is 160).

Isn't this reason enough to remove lethal implements from society ?
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 1:45 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
Ah, that first year or two of being here before the brain-washing takes effect.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685523
I've been here almost ten years. I just grew out of my inability to adapt to a new place. Not being a ****ing annoying, whiny little poof anymore is purely a product of circumstance.

Still, nothing like a bit of sanctimony of an evening, I suppose.
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 1:52 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by dlake02
Ignoring the method by which the violence is applied, the USA ranks as the most violent "developed" nation by a very long way:

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/c...ce/by-country/

92nd out of 192. Most of the EU states are around the 160 out of 192 mark (UK is 160).

Isn't this reason enough to remove lethal implements from society ?
That is perfectly reasonable, and a point that is impossible to make a good argument against. ..... Now please can you climb down from your soap box and explain in a real-world, practical, way how this could be achieved assuming that (i) the constitution was amended to the repeal the second amendment, and (ii) the SCOTUS confirmed that it was lawful to prohibit the private ownership of any and all firearms. How, in simple and practical terms, are you going to collect substantially all of the estimated 300 million small arms in private ownership in the US?
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 1:58 am
  #263  
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by Pulaski
How, in simple and practical terms, are you going to collect substantially all of the estimated 300 million small arms in private ownership in the US?
Simple answer. You can't!
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 2:01 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by hungryhorace
They're all too busy being brain washed. I think when I have kids, I will have to seriously think about moving back to England. I could not live knowing they would be brainwashed at school with pro American bullshit without any thought for their fellow humans well being.
Originally Posted by dlake02
OK - serious question now. When does that brain-washing happen because it's not a Middle School (as far as I can tell). In fact, my son's history teacher was lecturing on the fall of the Roman Empire and how the US was next a few weeks back....

Is the "USA, USA" mentality more engrained at high school/college ?
They aren't "brainwashed". Some people who grow up here suffer from the same thing that people anywhere suffer from when they can't get a decent education - and by that I don't just mean what they get in school, either. When nobody gives you any context for anything, or teaches you how to think, or supplies you with proper books so you can read, you end up vulnerable to whatever stupid idea anyone wants to put in your head - whatever country you are in. The "USA, USA" mentality no more describes the attitude of the entire population of the US than do the Little Englanders represent all of us in the UK. And I do not say this as a particular fan of the US myself, either. I'm sure I would be a lot more comfortable in the UK, but that does not lead me to make false generalizations about the place. The country is stuffed with intelligent, talented, thinking people as well as all the others - just like anywhere.

I have successfully brought up the Little Lion here to the point of 14 years old so far, and I can assure you he is not a mindless, unthinking, uncritical person who never reads or analyses or thinks for himself. He does all those things, and is about to go to a public high school with some excellent teachers, courses, and facilities on offer.

If you bring up a mindless "USA, USA" person in your own household then you are doing something wrong.

Oh and he doesn't want a gun, either.
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 2:01 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by Pulaski
That is perfectly reasonable, and a point that is impossible to make a good argument against. ..... Now please can you climb down from your soap box and explain in a real-world, practical, way how this could be achieved assuming that (i) the constitution was amended to the repeal the second amendment, and (ii) the SCOTUS confirmed that it was lawful to prohibit the private ownership of any and all firearms. How, in simple and practical terms, are you going to collect substantially all of the estimated 300 million small arms in private ownership in the US?
It's when you say 300 million that it sends a shiver up my spine....

Law is dynamic - what was right in 1791, 223 years ago, may not apply today

What the law should be is up to the people of the state to decide, and frankly, they have very strongly told their government to fix this.

As I said before, it starts with an open and robust discussion - there shouldn't be a news programme that isn't berating a politician everyday for their lack of duty of care.
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 2:04 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by dlake02
It's when you say 300 million that it sends a shiver up my spine....

Law is dynamic - what was right in 1791, 223 years ago, may not apply today

What the law should be is up to the people of the state to decide, and frankly, they have very strongly told their government to fix this.

As I said before, it starts with an open and robust discussion - there shouldn't be a news programme that isn't berating a politician everyday for their lack of duty of care.
So you're just going to completely ignore my question.
Originally Posted by markonline1
Simple answer. You can't!
Exactly, and therefore all discussions where one side of the debate argues for a complete ban on the ownership of firearms, or at least pistols, is ultimately and utterly pointless.

Clearly the current interpretation of the constitution is proving to be an obstruction to even moving in the right direction, when a clear majority of even gun owners want effective screening of gun owners and effective policing of controls, so trying to discuss a way forward based on banning guns is just plain daft no matter the statistics used to support the argument nor the extent to which the argument comes from the moral high ground.

Last edited by Pulaski; Feb 19th 2014 at 2:20 am.
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 2:08 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by Pulaski
So you're just going to completely ignore my question.
I would say the answer is "very slowly."

And imperfectly.

But with culture change and law working together, very roughly speaking in the way Jim Crow was changed (which still doesn't mean that racism is yet gone of course).

Sometimes law has to take the lead in creating culture change, rather than the other way around - it's part of creating the shift. I don't think anybody in their right mind could say that it would be easy, tidy, fast or perfect.
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 2:11 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by Pulaski
So you're just going to completely ignore my question.
It's not for me to answer ! It's for the citizens of the country to demand that their politicians to do what they are paid to do. When the overwhelming majority of people want guns removed from society and the government fails to act on that and people aren't on the streets complaining, that displays a supine populace.

Again - national debate. Remember how the UK instilled stigmas on various anti-social forms of behaviour (smoking, driving your kids to school, drink/driving) and how attitudes to those things were massively changed ? That took leadership and at times was unpopular. There is an entire culture and attitude set here that needs to be changed, and a mostly receptive audience. Then when you have to fund and organise the police better to enforce changes, you are able to justify it.
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 2:12 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
I would say the answer is "very slowly."

And imperfectly.

But with culture change and law working together, very roughly speaking in the way Jim Crow was changed (which still doesn't mean that racism is yet gone of course).

Sometimes law has to take the lead in creating culture change, rather than the other way around - it's part of creating the shift. I don't think anybody in their right mind could say that it would be easy, tidy, fast or perfect.
What (s)he said...
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Old Feb 19th 2014, 2:17 am
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Default Re: 9th Circuit tosses Calif. concealed weapon rules

Originally Posted by dlake02
It's not for me to answer ! It's for the citizens of the country to demand that their politicians to do what they are paid to do. When the overwhelming majority of people want guns removed from society and the government fails to act on that and people aren't on the streets complaining, that displays a supine populace.

Again - national debate. Remember how the UK instilled stigmas on various anti-social forms of behaviour (smoking, driving your kids to school, drink/driving) and how attitudes to those things were massively changed ? That took leadership and at times was unpopular. There is an entire culture and attitude set here that needs to be changed, and a mostly receptive audience. Then when you have to fund and organise the police better to enforce changes, you are able to justify it.
Two points.

1. The overwhelming majority of people don't want guns removed from society. Responsible ownership is enough. It should be up to the individual to decide if they want one, not some self serving politician to tell them that they can or can't. It's an opt in/opt out deal. Fyi, the baddies will opt in regardless ...

2. If you don't like the way things are here, put your money where your mouth is. Become a citizen and vote. Otherwise you're just a whiner. If you don't take part in the process, you can't bitch about when it doesn't go your way.
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