Originally Posted by Jerseygirl

If Trump wins the Dems have only themselves to blame. They should have chosen someone younger than Biden.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing

Ehhh, I think you're only half right. Age isn't itself the issue, you put pressure to go with someone younger you may end up with Mayo Pete or some other nasty little neoliberal slave to the oligarchy, but that 30 years won't make a lick of difference when you're up against the Q cultists and the MAGAts. I mean I'm not unbiased, I think Biden's an objectively crap candidate in and of himself, and forever curst the fact that the DNC never gave us someone to vote for, they merely relied on the fact that there was someone to vote against.

Plus let's not forget that Bernie is older than both of them and he's probably stronger and fitter than I am. Not a high bar, but whatever.

Anyway, I voted for a third party in a deep red district in a deep blue state. Beat that you bunch of pansies

Originally Posted by Jsmth321

Haven't seen you around lately....

Originally Posted by Jsmth321

My dad votes 3rd party in California, safe blue state so it doesn't funnel enough votes away to change the outcome.

Originally Posted by BEVS

No. Absolutely no. This election is too important and dire for side-stepping.
If Trump wins then all those that voted for him and the party behind him are totally and utterly blameworthy for that. No abdication of responsibility. Not one iota. They will have made the worst of the worst happen for millions of people all around the world. For flora, fauna , wildlife , culture , ecology and all for what exactly ?

The first time round I could almost sort of understand it a little bit ,despite it was obvious how it would pan out during the four years. This time there is no excuse. Those that would vote this again obviously get off on his one syllable inflammatory divisive rhetoric.

Biden and Trump are of the same age. One has backbone and standards , the other does not. One has a proven record to work within a team. The other does not. One cares socially, has experience of what it is to suffer . The other one certainly beyond any shadow of doubt does not. One is a narcissistic, continuously lying sociopath, the other certainly is not.

So no and no again. Those that vote again for this current admin are the only ones blameworthy for all they bring down on others because they want guns; no abortion; erosion of human rights; protection of wealth; -- and the negative list there goes on.

One can hope the scales fall from the eyes but TBH I have doubts. I've seen and heard first hand now the disgusting dreadful baying ,of a dye in the wool republican trump hound. Shocking.

Originally Posted by BEVS

No. Absolutely no. This election is too important and dire for side-stepping.
If Trump wins then all those that voted for him and the party behind him are totally and utterly blameworthy for that. No abdication of responsibility. Not one iota. They will have made the worst of the worst happen for millions of people all around the world. For flora, fauna , wildlife , culture , ecology and all for what exactly ?

The first time round I could almost sort of understand it a little bit ,despite it was obvious how it would pan out during the four years. This time there is no excuse. Those that would vote this again obviously get off on his one syllable inflammatory divisive rhetoric.

Biden and Trump are of the same age. One has backbone and standards , the other does not. One has a proven record to work within a team. The other does not. One cares socially, has experience of what it is to suffer . The other one certainly beyond any shadow of doubt does not. One is a narcissistic, continuously lying sociopath, the other certainly is not.

So no and no again. Those that vote again for this current admin are the only ones blameworthy for all they bring down on others because they want guns; no abortion; erosion of human rights; protection of wealth; -- and the negative list there goes on.

One can hope the scales fall from the eyes but TBH I have doubts. I've seen and heard first hand now the disgusting dreadful baying ,of a dye in the wool republican trump hound. Shocking.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing

Ehhh, I think you're only half right. Age isn't itself the issue, you put pressure to go with someone younger you may end up with Mayo Pete or some other nasty little neoliberal slave to the oligarchy, but that 30 years won't make a lick of difference when you're up against the Q cultists and the MAGAts. I mean I'm not unbiased, I think Biden's an objectively crap candidate in and of himself, and forever curst the fact that the DNC never gave us someone to vote for, they merely relied on the fact that there was someone to vote against.

Plus let's not forget that Bernie is older than both of them and he's probably stronger and fitter than I am. Not a high bar, but whatever.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing

Ehhh, I think you're only half right. Age isn't itself the issue, you put pressure to go with someone younger you may end up with Mayo Pete or some other nasty little neoliberal slave to the oligarchy, but that 30 years won't make a lick of difference when you're up against the Q cultists and the MAGAts. I mean I'm not unbiased, I think Biden's an objectively crap candidate in and of himself, and forever curst the fact that the DNC never gave us someone to vote for, they merely relied on the fact that there was someone to vote against.

Plus let's not forget that Bernie is older than both of them and he's probably stronger and fitter than I am. Not a high bar, but whatever.

Anyway, I voted for a third party in a deep red district in a deep blue state. Beat that you bunch of pansies

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing

Ehhh, I think you're only half right. Age isn't itself the issue, you put pressure to go with someone younger you may end up with Mayo Pete or some other nasty little neoliberal slave to the oligarchy, but that 30 years won't make a lick of difference when you're up against the Q cultists and the MAGAts. I mean I'm not unbiased, I think Biden's an objectively crap candidate in and of himself, and forever curst the fact that the DNC never gave us someone to vote for, they merely relied on the fact that there was someone to vote against.

Plus let's not forget that Bernie is older than both of them and he's probably stronger and fitter than I am. Not a high bar, but whatever.

Anyway, I voted for a third party in a deep red district in a deep blue state. Beat that you bunch of pansies

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl

Frankly I don’t know where they get the energy from at their age. I thought the same about Clinton in 2016.

Originally Posted by BEVS

You make a good point.

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl

Frankly I don’t know where they get the energy from at their age. I thought the same about Clinton in 2016.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

For a moment I contemplated voting for Leonard Peltier, given the irrelevance of my Presidential vote in Illinois. But then he dropped off the ballot because he's dying in prison.

Originally Posted by dakota44

Trumps base is made up of people we will never be rid of. Start with a significant number of moron evangelicals who vote for Trump because they believe he was sent by God to bring on the end times and they can be raptured to heaven. F'ng morons following corrupt pastors that relish in taking their cash while feeding them more bullshit. Then add in the selfish wealthy ones who pay no heed to the fact that The New Testament quotes Jesus as saying that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdomof God"., just give us the tax cuts is their refrain. Then, of course, add in the idiotic dipshits who fail to understand the real meaning of the 2nd amendment and want to parade around toting their AR15's etc to compensate for what I assume must be a very tiny penis, and who take pride in harassing people exercising their right to free speech and assembly to protest the actions of their government. And then you can add the out and out racists, white supremacists' and neo nazis. The balance, I assume, are made up of inbred dimwits who can barely read. Nope, no getting rid of them and sadly they will always be around.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing

The same thing happened in 2016. We were given Hillary, who ran on one issue - she wasn't Trump. Well she campaigned disastrously in the Midwest (where she is from FFS) and the rust belt and everyone underestimated Trump's base, himself included. The DNC never really learns from past mistakes, and we as voters never really learned when Obama's 'change' really meant changing Middle Eastern children from being alive to being not quite so alive anymore.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't like Biden as a candidate. I'm not a fan of neoliberalism or capitalism, he's in bed with big oil and the banks, but I want him to beat Trump. The second that happens though, I don't want the 'brunch liberals' to think that's mission accomplished and go back into hiding. That's when the pressure needs to start to push him left. Holy crap, if we actually had a Democratic president who turned out to be half as badass as the Fox News fearmongering tries to make out, I would possibly die vaguely contented.