Hotscot

Boiler. You are always on point.
And not always appreciated.
I do.

Giantaxe

Obviously the "you" in my comment didn't refer to you personally. So you not caring is moot; any progress on immigration is going to have to address the issue of people already here one way or another.

Giantaxe

So what's your solution to the "facts on the ground"?

Hotscot

So Gianteaxe
Are you benefiting from illegals the way I do? $$$
Do you care one way or the other personally? I don't.
Do you want to overturn the current immigration laws? By voting.
Do you want the illegal aliens to get a shortcut to citizenship?
There are plenty of legal visas for temp workers,

Of course you're in the city of needles and poops. What are you doing about that?

(I enjoy your posts..no personal issues with you but SF residents seem to love illegal aliens and I don't know why? I came on L1. Adobe)

Giantaxe

I presume I am benefiting in the sense that I can't vouch for the legality of every worker that serves me, be it in a restaurant or when my condo building was repainted etc etc.

I readily admit I don't have a solution. I think the best we can do is start to chip away at the margins, for example by giving those that came under a certain age a path to legality. Additionally, it's all essentially pointless unless and until the employment of undocumented workers is treated as a significant crime and prosecuted as such. Right now, employers essentially can employ such workers with impunity. For example, the boyfriend of a friend is an undocumented immigrant from El Salvador. He's been here around 20 years. He's employed by a transport company in SF who can treat him like shit and provide none of the benefits that they do to legal workers.

I came on an L1 too and am a citizen now.

Hotscot

Ok I get you.
Peace man...

(Avoid those poops.)

scrubbedexpat099

I do not have one, I have said this before I see a bad situation and one that could get worse. Well that is not true, the only solution I can think of is an equalising wealth between areas, so if in Gabon whatever you can earn $1 an hour and in the US $20 then there will always be a pull, if it was say $5 in Gabon and $10 in the US maybe not so much. I think that sort of thing will inevitably happen. Has happened internally in the US and the UK, well my Grandparents moved in 1940 for similar factors.

What I would like to know, and this goes for quite a few other issues, is what the proponents of change expect their change to produce.

Some of it seems simple to forecast, and there are intelligent people making these proposals, I do not know Castro but assume he is no dummy.

So what am I lead to believe, they have not considered the consequences, they have but do not care, somebody else's problem? Or they think the change, and we are talking a massive change is good. So many other areas they talk about 5 or 10 years whatever, GND etc talks about what will happen by 2100, so why ignore other positions like this.

I am not expecting definite numbers.

On Global Warming not sure if anybody has taken into account migration flows, if we have large numbers moving from areas where their carbon footprint is low to areas where it is high, then that strikes me as of consequence, seems to be a factor of 20 difference in many cases.

scrubbedexpat099

I find it hard to believe CA will change, and I have certainly come across cases where the illegal has legalised and then can not get their job back.Having someone on the books is a lot more expensive, one I can think of had incorrectly assumed it would be a plus. Had gone for his interview, came back and the Employer was not interested in putting him on the books.

Hotscot

Gabon is where Tarzan grew up.
Factoid.

Hotscot

I hardly think giving citizens of another country who came here, or were brought here, illegally should have a path to citizenship that cuts in front of legal qualified applicants.
That's on their parents who initiated the illegal action. Don't you agree?

Otherwise it would be such a draw to come here with a young child/baby/pregnant...and that's not a sensible immigration policy.
Or is it? I'm no expert.

Steerpike

I guess it comes down to whether or not you believe the (lets say for now) "irresponsible actions" of a parent should adversely reflect on a child. That is a VERY complex subject; It's every parent's right (maybe even 'duty') to do what they can for their children; but conversely, should society stand by and allow a child to suffer through the negative actions of the parent? We clearly have various 'safety nets' in place to protect children who's parent's don't do what society deems 'appropriate' - we have child protective services, food stamps, free education, adoption, foster care, etc. So are we as a society willing to say, "it's really sad that that kid doesn't have (whatever)... but, it's the fault of the parents so I'm not going to worry about it". We could deport the parents and assume they would go back to 'whatever it was they came from', but are we willing to do the same to their children, who have never had any other experience? You said earlier, you vote for your representatives and you expect them to take care of dealing with the issues; fair enough. I believe also that I pay taxes and my taxes are there to help those less fortunate than myself. I wish more of my taxes went to helping the poor, and less towards sustaining the biggest military on the planet.

I will say it again - if someone is willing to risk their life getting here in the back of a truck, they are on a different level from the likes of me who got here thanks to a good education and a valuable skill. The concept of 'fairness' and 'queue jumping' just doesn't enter into it. Those who come here illegally aren't taking any 'space' or 'position in queue' from anyone else trying to get here legally.

Hotscot

Most people don't care about their neighbors next door.
Let alone those on the other side of town. Even less citizens of another country.

Most care about their loved ones, (some) family, and their pets. Human nature.
Lip service is easy though.

'Those who come here illegally aren't taking any 'space' or 'position in queue' from anyone else trying to get here legally.'

They do take significant resources collectively, and some of them do kill citizens and legal residents. Pretty nasty for someone who has no right to be here in the first place. Just a fact.
Indefensible.

Whatever your rational they have no right to be here. Agree?

Giantaxe

I purposefully didn't say citizenship, but "legality".

Hotscot

Which visa?

And would that be a sensible immigration policy? Anyone from anywhere in the world? I don't know.

Giantaxe

A new category.