scrubbedexpat099

I am not convinced that being Democratic leaning means they will vote Progressive.

And as has been pointed out many times what may go down well in Progressive areas does not a General Election win.

Anian

Hiro11

Just to clarify one point, there's a big difference between "cost to the consumer" and "cost". You're talking the former, I'm talking the latter.

BritInParis

Thanks; sounds like I might have to give it another whirl.

Oakvillian

I don't think you're actually talking about "cost." You appear to have confused this concept with "what we think we can get away with charging the insurer." There's as much similarity between that and the actual cost of a procedure as there is between either of those things and what the consumer pays.

Of course, in sensible countries, the cost to the consumer is zero. I would be bankrupt several times over by now if that were not the case in Canada. I dread to think what the costs for my daughter would have been a couple of years ago: after being run over by a school bus, she spent just short of 9 weeks in a paediatric ICU with multiple (I lost count, but around a dozen) visits to OR or interventional radiology; a further 12 weeks on a high-dependency ward; and another 18 weeks as an inpatient in a rehabilitation hospital. Plus, of course, ongoing outpatient care ever since.

Cost to me? A big fat zero. Cost to the scary socialist Canadian healthcare system? Probably heading significantly north of $1.5 million so far, and counting... Thank you, fellow Canadians, for contributing according to your ability; I have made use of the services according to my need. Dr Marx would be proud

scrubbedexpat099

Probably one of the biggest issues and I think most people realise it is getting worse, I was speaking to someone I have known for a long time, she has been up here a long time, Husband passed and she had a serious issue, fortunatley her son was around to drive her 70 miles to a Hospital to get it seen to otherwise she would be dead.

Our local medical facilities have been closed one by one, has been explained to me, Healthcare is a business, big business and the same way we can not justify a Walmart we can not justify medical services.

Now they have been opening Hospitals etc in the Denver region, I see them going up left right, apparently costs have been increasing due to the over supply... That is where they think they can make money.

Hiro11

Sure, OK. I agree with this.

OK, here we go.

Incorrect. The consumer is likely paying for it, directly through taxes or indirectly through shortages / compromised care. I'm terribly sorry for your daughter. What an ordeal, there's nothing more traumatic for a parent than a child who's suffering. I hope she is in the process of making a full recovery and is healthy and happy.

Still, regarding your example, as I said earlier catastrophic insurance is cheap and catastrophic treatment is not the major source of medical cost in aggregate.

Strawman. Who are you arguing with?

Oakvillian

Here we go what? The whole of the rest of the western world laughs at the mess the USA has made of its healthcare insurance system. Are you trying to imply that that the US healthcare system is somehow sensible?

The cost to the consumer, from his pocket at the point of delivery, is zero, in countries with a public or public-private hybrid healthcare system. The straw man here is your blathering on about catastrophic insurance. I don't need that; it's already covered by my taxes, thanks. And it's worth pointing out (as has already been pointed out many times up-thread) that the additional tax burden upon residents of countries with socialized medical coverage is actually significantly less than the total cost of taxes, employer insurance premiums, employee contributions, and co-pays currently on offer in the US - and that leaves an alarming number of the population without any coverage at all.

I rather thought the premise that the US healthcare system is a dysfunctional mess was rather beyond argument at this point, isn't it?

Hiro11

Jesus. Settle down, tough guy. You seem extremely certain in your opinions and extremely quick to take offense. You have no idea who I am or what I believe and yet you keep hanging strawmen on me based on your own preconceptions and neuroses. You have clearly no interest in considering anything I say and are merely content with assuming I'm a blithering idiot and launching snarky rants. Not really much left to say here, is there. Bailing.

Novocastrian

You're correct, except among the disaster capitalist Brexiteers who really, really want to flog off the NHS to Kaiser Permanente and the like.

Oakvillian

Bail away. I am not in the slightest bit offended, although you seem to think I am. I haven't hung any strawmen on anybody - merely pointed out that the rest of the economically developed world is rather bemused by the parlous state of the US healthcare system, particularly with its stark division between haves and have-nots. My first post on this subject was merely pointing out that there's a difference between what a procedure costs, and what an insurance company can get away with billing. It was you, though, who jumped on that my following point with calls of "incorrect" and started in on the strawman thing. I have been nothing but polite in my discourse; it is you, conversely, who seems to have taken massive offence that somebody dared to question your authority.

I remain glad that I live in a country with a sensibly managed healthcare system: it has its faults, for sure, but I wouldn't swap it for the mess that is US healthcare for all the tea in China. My criticisms are very much of the US healthcare insurance industry, rather than of any individual. You're entitled to your opinions, just as much as I am entitled to disagree with them. You're right, I have no idea who you are. Nor have I any idea on what basis you have formed your opinion of me: you have no idea who I am either. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

Ingles

As the present Administration has been loading Federal Courts with "like minded" Judges , could this be one off them ????
Monsanto is in Court yet again in USA
But the Judge presiding the case has forbidden the Cancer Patients Lawyer from making ANY reference too
"Monsanto's influence on Government regulations & Cancer Research"
+ banned the Lawyer from discussing the Corporations alleged manipulation off science
How much doe's it cost to "lobby" a Judge today ?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...roundup-cancer

scrubbedexpat091

The judge in this case was appointed in 2014 by President Obama.

scrubbedexpat099

Not sure that helps.

Steerpike

I gave up on the show soon after Noah took over. I was channel-surfing the other night and stumbled across it; seemed like the same old same-old to me ... I gave up after 10 mins or so. Jon Stewart was truly masterful in that role ...