2020 Election
#1621
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 2020 Election
Being an American who has experienced both the Canadian and US system, I am not sure why anyone would voluntarily pay thousands or more a year for healthcare but for some reason some in the US seem to love paying through the nose because gasp they might need to wait a week or 2 for a non-emergency.
My mom when she had cancer while she had health insurance she quickly exceeded her life time maximums and with co-insurance and such still ended up near bankrupt, in BC here, she would have to pay for parking at the hospital but she would have paid $0 out of pocket for the actual medical treatment, doctors, surgery etc.
My mom when she had cancer while she had health insurance she quickly exceeded her life time maximums and with co-insurance and such still ended up near bankrupt, in BC here, she would have to pay for parking at the hospital but she would have paid $0 out of pocket for the actual medical treatment, doctors, surgery etc.
What is it about the Canadian model that Americans dislike? Basic healthcare is covered for everyone, and if you're lucky enough to have a health plan through work or purchase supplementary insurance like Blue Cross or whatever or on some benefit programs then your vision and dental are covered (to varying extent depending on the plan). Health care becomes a political football and that's to be expected, but it works for us. There are ongoing problems and solutions but that just shows it's alive. In 1983 when my dad's heart failed in California they told him it would cost something like $1,400/day to have it fixed at Dwight D Eisenhower hospital even with the Blue Cross he always purchased, but after 4 or 5 days they found an airline that was willing to fly him to Vancouver, where he got a 2 week stay at VGH and a valve job at government expense.
#1622
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 2020 Election
What about the people whose mental or physical health problems mean they're unable to get a job, let alone allow them to show all this wonderful initiative and work ethic. Did you even read JS's post? He's applied for hundreds of jobs. Those he's managed to get he did his very best at, but his mental health issues led to his dismissal.
He didn't ask to have these problems. He doesn't want to have these problems. He's trying his hardest to overcome these problems in an employment market and a health system that can't help him, so he's trying to do it on his own. And despite the continual knock-backs, he's still trying. Now that's what I call initiative and drive.
He pays his rent on time. He pays all his bills on time. Some months he has less than $80 to buy food and incidentals with. Less than $20 a week.
You did your very best and tried your very hardest with the body and brain you were born with to make a good life for yourself, and all credit to you for doing that. JS also does his very best and tries his very hardest with the body and brain he was born with, and he deserves the same credit for doing that as you do. The difference in your respective financial positions isn't down to lack of initiative or lack of trying. Please try, really try, to understand that. I say this really sincerely and without a trace of nastiness - understanding that will make you a better person, and if everyone understood this the world we live in would be a much better place for us all.
He didn't ask to have these problems. He doesn't want to have these problems. He's trying his hardest to overcome these problems in an employment market and a health system that can't help him, so he's trying to do it on his own. And despite the continual knock-backs, he's still trying. Now that's what I call initiative and drive.
He pays his rent on time. He pays all his bills on time. Some months he has less than $80 to buy food and incidentals with. Less than $20 a week.
You did your very best and tried your very hardest with the body and brain you were born with to make a good life for yourself, and all credit to you for doing that. JS also does his very best and tries his very hardest with the body and brain he was born with, and he deserves the same credit for doing that as you do. The difference in your respective financial positions isn't down to lack of initiative or lack of trying. Please try, really try, to understand that. I say this really sincerely and without a trace of nastiness - understanding that will make you a better person, and if everyone understood this the world we live in would be a much better place for us all.
I am certainly willing to work, but I do need an employer willing to accommodate my needs to health which is the tricky part, and if training options were more widely available that provided supports people need, this one size fits all educational system where the best and brightest get to go leaves a lot of people behind to struggle through life barely making it.
There was an article recently about a Practical Nurse who is trying to upgrade to RN, but can't get into the programs because she doesn't have a 3.8 or 3.9 GPA but yet she is consider qualified and working as an LPN, I would rather have an LPN trying to upgrade to RN who has been working in nursing but has a 3.3 GPA over a 19 or 20 year old who has no work experience in nursing but has a high GPA.
One can have a low GPA and still be smart, we are all different, and we don't all learn via books and lectures, I can learn just about anything via repetition, but reading a book and listening to lectures, I retain very little which is why I do so poorly in school despite trying and putting all my effort towards it, and the more classes I have at once the worse I do since there is more information to learn then my brain can retain.
The world would indeed be a better place is everyone understood we are all different, have different abilities, have different modes of learning, came from different backgrounds and some people have more barriers than others and sometimes those barriers are too difficult to overcome alone which is what society seems to want as its not willing to provide necessary supports to those who need it.
If hospitals for example trained medical device reprocessing and didn't rely on private educational programs to do the training, it would open that door to more people, its a job that training can be done on the job, and in fact 90% of the training program through the college that provides the training is done at the hospital doing the job, very little is in a classroom, but by making it so people need to go through a college, people have to pay $10,000 and some change for training that isn't even a year long, and so start off part-time or casual at a hospital making $23/hr, and they make it even harder by making it a continuing education program which means not eligible for student loans, which means you need the financial resources to pay for said training. A low wage worker wanting to better their life likely doesn't have the money to pay for it, nor the time since they are needing to work 16 hour days just to make ends meet.
Same with learning how to take blood, training programs are short but expensive, many of the short term training programs for specific jobs cost more or the same as a 4 year degree, and that is kind of sad and many of these vocational training don't lead to high paying jobs, mostly in the low to mid 20 something an hour which for Vancouver still means struggling but it's better than $14/hr.
#1623
Re: 2020 Election
In fairness, it all started in the UK with the EU referendum (June 2016); Trump's election followed; and now it's back to the UK. It's pointless to draw too many conclusions/parallels, but on the other hand, there are some potential similarities. One takeaway for me is, the parties need to stop bleating about 'unfair media' and start finding ways to take advantage of the media. Back during Obama's candidacy, the Dem's were hailed as the masters of the 'new media' - they found ways to target voters far more effectively than the Republicans. Somewhere along the way, the Republicans became the masters of it. Looking to regulation won't cut it - the technology is moving too fast for legislation to cut it. The democrats need to take the initiative again.
I do think it's worth noting, though, that Labour offered a massive amount of 'free stuff', and that wasn't enough.
I do think it's worth noting, though, that Labour offered a massive amount of 'free stuff', and that wasn't enough.
#1624
Re: 2020 Election
I agree with you. I have always believe there should be better government sponsored training programs that result in a well paid job. America does a poor job lifting people up in the training department. We rely too much on the private sector to lift people up when it should be a three dimensional approach. Training partly sponsored by government, Private sector recruitment from those programs, and trade schools and community colleges offering reduced price tuition. We do some of that but it's not universal.
Some American Companies had apprenticeship programs I know Caterpillar Tractor did. In the US my son did with a large HVAC company. Not a trade I'd recommend. Little or no health insurance for the most part, slow or rainy days no pay, no vacation. Like all construction jobs, takes it's toll physically over time. The days of union jobs are long gone.
#1625
Re: 2020 Election
In fairness, it all started in the UK with the EU referendum (June 2016); Trump's election followed; and now it's back to the UK. It's pointless to draw too many conclusions/parallels, but on the other hand, there are some potential similarities. One takeaway for me is, the parties need to stop bleating about 'unfair media' and start finding ways to take advantage of the media. Back during Obama's candidacy, the Dem's were hailed as the masters of the 'new media' - they found ways to target voters far more effectively than the Republicans. Somewhere along the way, the Republicans became the masters of it. Looking to regulation won't cut it - the technology is moving too fast for legislation to cut it. The democrats need to take the initiative again.
I do think it's worth noting, though, that Labour offered a massive amount of 'free stuff', and that wasn't enough.
I do think it's worth noting, though, that Labour offered a massive amount of 'free stuff', and that wasn't enough.
#1626
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 2020 Election
Back in the 50s and 60s most every major and some minor British companies had apprenticeship programs. The degree of difficulty of getting accepted depended on the prestige of the company. There was a lot of competition for companies Like Jaguar and Roll-Royce.
Some American Companies had apprenticeship programs I know Caterpillar Tractor did. In the US my son did with a large HVAC company. Not a trade I'd recommend. Little or no health insurance for the most part, slow or rainy days no pay, no vacation. Like all construction jobs, takes it's toll physically over time. The days of union jobs are long gone.
Some American Companies had apprenticeship programs I know Caterpillar Tractor did. In the US my son did with a large HVAC company. Not a trade I'd recommend. Little or no health insurance for the most part, slow or rainy days no pay, no vacation. Like all construction jobs, takes it's toll physically over time. The days of union jobs are long gone.
Everyone seems to want to race to the bottom for some reason.
#1627
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
Back in the 50s and 60s most every major and some minor British companies had apprenticeship programs. The degree of difficulty of getting accepted depended on the prestige of the company. There was a lot of competition for companies Like Jaguar and Roll-Royce.
Some American Companies had apprenticeship programs I know Caterpillar Tractor did. In the US my son did with a large HVAC company. Not a trade I'd recommend. Little or no health insurance for the most part, slow or rainy days no pay, no vacation. Like all construction jobs, takes it's toll physically over time. The days of union jobs are long gone.
Some American Companies had apprenticeship programs I know Caterpillar Tractor did. In the US my son did with a large HVAC company. Not a trade I'd recommend. Little or no health insurance for the most part, slow or rainy days no pay, no vacation. Like all construction jobs, takes it's toll physically over time. The days of union jobs are long gone.
#1628
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Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
And even where unions exist there may be little benefit to a union in some industries, the grocery stores here are largely union, but they are largely low wage (usually min wage) mostly all part-time as well now, top pay is still too low to actually thrive here, Air Canada is the same, their ramp employees are union, starting pay is min wage, top pay is less than some of the non-union companies and takes nearly a decade to reach top pay, yeah they get to pay into a pension, but that $13.85/hr after taxes, union dues, benefits, pension and other deductions net take home is closer to $8 or $9 per hour.
Everyone seems to want to race to the bottom for some reason.
Everyone seems to want to race to the bottom for some reason.
#1629
Re: 2020 Election
I lived in Crawley, Sussex for a few years as a young man. It was one of the new towns which were built at the end of WW2. It had a very large industrial estate and factories that were turning out numerous industrial products. I served an apprenticeship as a sheet metal worker. After I left the UK I never worked in that trade again. Many years later I did a trip to Crawley while visiting the UK. The industrial estate was completely gone, factories and all. Many of those trade apprenticeships did not do any good for those who went through them because the jobs had all left the country. My grandfather worked most of his working life at Harland and Wolf ship yard in Belfast. That too has gone. All the factories in Sheffield have also disappeared. I'm not even sure if Sheffield cutlery is still in existence. Union jobs are still alive and well in the public service sector here although at the City where I worked there was a no strike clause for police, fire fighters and water and power utility employees.
#1630
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 2020 Election
Sam's Club failed in Canada, not even Wal-Mart could compete head to head with Costco here.... But Super Wal-Mart's have taken a chunk of grocery market share, but grocery chains seem to be winning customers back with nicer stores, and home delivery something Wal-Mart doesn't do yet, where I am Wal-Mart is a small player only 1 store within the City of Vancouver limits but far eastern edge and its more a mini-Super Wal-Mart since its smaller compared to a normal Super Wal-Mart. With all the grocery chains and independent grocery places Vancouver seems to be able to keep Wal-Mart at bay, helps that the city doesn't approve applications so doubt we will ever see another Wal-Mart within city limits but they thrive in the suburbs.
#1631
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Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
No I left on a whim just for the experience. I wanted to change jobs. Saw an ad in the Sunday Telegraph for a job with Boeing, which was a fit for me and applied. Job interview in March. Embassy interview in July and on the plane to Seattle in October. Four green cards handed to the family on arrival at point of entry. Fare and move paid for by Boeing.
Once settled I didn't want start all over back in the UK. Mixed feelings about US vs UK. In some ways regrets not being with family in the UK. Politically the UK is as messed up as the US. Brexit makes me less than enthusiastic. At my age I'm in the US now for better or worse.
Once settled I didn't want start all over back in the UK. Mixed feelings about US vs UK. In some ways regrets not being with family in the UK. Politically the UK is as messed up as the US. Brexit makes me less than enthusiastic. At my age I'm in the US now for better or worse.
Last edited by dc koop; Dec 14th 2019 at 5:49 am.
#1632
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
Sam's Club failed in Canada, not even Wal-Mart could compete head to head with Costco here.... But Super Wal-Mart's have taken a chunk of grocery market share, but grocery chains seem to be winning customers back with nicer stores, and home delivery something Wal-Mart doesn't do yet, where I am Wal-Mart is a small player only 1 store within the City of Vancouver limits but far eastern edge and its more a mini-Super Wal-Mart since its smaller compared to a normal Super Wal-Mart. With all the grocery chains and independent grocery places Vancouver seems to be able to keep Wal-Mart at bay, helps that the city doesn't approve applications so doubt we will ever see another Wal-Mart within city limits but they thrive in the suburbs.
Albertsons and Vons are the two major stores in my part of the town with Stater Brothers a third. Albertsons and Vons are both unionized and both belong to the same company. Talks on pay increases have been dragging on for eons. The union members voted on strike action but so far nothing has taken place. The last time they struck several years ago they lost a lot of customers to Walmart and Costco and Albertsons later closed down several of their stores. Both they and Vons rarely ever seem crowded and sometimes almost empty so I have to wonder how they're both doing financially.
Last edited by dc koop; Dec 14th 2019 at 5:52 am.
#1633
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Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
There has to be an ever increasing number of jobs in green technology but demanding better standards of education with a college or university degree as a definite requirement. The problem is that the public schools are not turning out better educated students . At my granddaughter's high school 55 percent of the pupils are unable to achieve a higher score than C in mathematics.
#1634
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 2020 Election
There has to be an ever increasing number of jobs in green technology but demanding better standards of education with a college or university degree as a definite requirement. The problem is that the public schools are not turning out better educated students . At my granddaughter's high school 55 percent of the pupils are unable to achieve a higher score than C in mathematics.
#1635
Re: 2020 Election
I'm not sure it is ready, and I fear that a Sanders candidacy could fail. This is more of a gut feeling than anything born out by statistics. I hope I'm wrong.