Lion in Winter

It's ok, you're forgiven There is a huge difference between intelligent conservative philosophy and criticism, and half-witted right-wing nationalist and bigoted garbage.

I took classes from Garry Wills when I was at uni, another intelligent conservative writer. He used to rip the Reagan administration on many counts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Wills

zzrmark

Oh, it's not like that at all, there wasn't anything intelligent about these arseholes.
I like to remember the following when I'm trying to reading their bullshit: "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." Courtesy of Sun Tzu.

vespucci

A funny one for me was this: "Biden may have social-distancing issues of a pre-pandemic, post-#MeToo sort."

scrubbedexpat091

Got my ballot link and code today to access my ballot online. Only 16 propositions this time around.

scrubbedexpat091

I am impressed with the ballot this year for my area, they managed to get everything onto 1 sheet of paper, so now I simply have to mail back 2 sheets, the ballot, and the oath-signature sheet.

2016 was like 8 or 9 pages in total.

Still have to mail or fax it back though, maybe someday there will be an electronic means to return it that doesn't require a fax machine.

zzrmark

We went for the mail-in option for the presidential primaries and will again for the general. I'm wary about using the postal system to return my ballot so will drop it off at an early voting center again, obviously not an option for you out of state/country. I liked that the polling station had the box outside with the greeter so that I did not have to enter the building. More so, I like that I can easily track my ballot on the county's elections website, I could check to see when it arrived at the elections office and, more importantly, when it had been counted.
Now, just waiting for the blasted thing to arrive in the post...

Lion in Winter

I'm also waiting for mine, but I believe they are not expected until October. I can/will still go and vote in person if it doesn't show up.

Lion in Winter

Yes, completely agree on knowing the enemy, but some of that stuff is really hard to wade through. Facebook is a complete cesspit, for example.

HDWill

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...a-redux-420275

This is why absentee and mail-in voting isn't great. Not only is it far more labor intensive, but you can end up with situations where 5% of ballots are rejected because a lot of people are dumb or not detail oriented. In-person voting is far more dummy-proof and efficient.

SpoogleDrummer

And dumb people voting is good why?

HDWill

Maybe I should have just said "mistake prone." Good systems in any field reduce the chance of human error. In-person electronic voting for instance is more dummy-proof than in the past. (Remember the poorly designed ballot in Florida in 2000 that caused people who intended to vote for Gore to actually cast votes for Pat Buchanan?). Mail-in paper ballots have so many more chances of human error.

zzrmark

I should have thought it the other way around. I suppose you can talk to the staff if you have a problem but I always feel like I should be in and out especially when it's busy. At home I can sit down, utilize my English language skills, chat with the missus, research any names I'm not familiar with (US presidential is obviously different as I should have a pretty good idea after 18 months of non-stop b/s tv ads!!) and just take my time...and then I can play the dutiful husband and make sure the wife's is correctly filled out...

HDWill

Sure, if you're very careful and detail oriented, it's not a problem. But as far as the population as a whole...

An article in The Atlantic just came out discussing Trump's likely legal challenges to the election results, which will center on mail-in ballots in Democratic-heavy districts of swing states.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...oncede/616424/

"Mail-in ballots will have plenty of flaws for the Trump lawyers to seize upon. Voting by mail is more complicated than voting in person, and technical errors are common­place at each step. If voters supply a new address, or if they write a different version of their name (for example, by shortening Benjamin to Ben), or if their signature has changed over the years, or if they print their name on the signature line, or if they fail to seal the ballot inside an inner security envelope, their votes may not count. With in-person voting, a poll worker in the precinct can resolve small errors like these, for instance by directing a voter to the correct signature line, but people voting by mail may have no opportunity to address them."

zzrmark

I suppose that brings us full circle back to Spoogledrummer's observation.

My part-time work colleague would probably struggle to cope with the literacy aspects of the mail-in system, more annoyingly I cannot get him to register to vote as he's of the view 'what did they ever do for me and nothing ever changes'. He doesn't seem to understand that the only way things will ever change is if more people like him get involved.

Lion in Winter

And this, from that article.

“We are not prepared for this at all,” Julian Zelizer, a Prince­ton professor of history and public affairs, told me. “We talk about it, some worry about it, and we imagine what it would be. But few people have actual answers to what happens if the machinery of democracy is used to prevent a legitimate resolution to the election.”

He is referring to the fact we could get all the way to Inauguration Day with no result, due to endless legal challenges holding up the electoral college result. If this comes to pass it will not be good for this country. At all.