dc koop

I certainly don't blame the unions. They exist to work for better benefits and working conditions for their members. One of the reasons for the decline of the earning power of the middle class is the fall in union membership and the rise of right to work laws which only benefit the employer and increase their bottom line.

I think kids get too much time off school. It seems hardly a week goes by without minimum days (teacher- parent conferences) and do they need a whole week off for Thanksgiving? When our late and unlamented Governor Arnold Schwarzennegger finished his term the State's finances were so bad that all school districts were required to close the schools periodically for one day. The length of summer breaks is ridiculous. One month would be adequate enough. Lost time in class adds up to hundreds of hours a year and dumping extra homework on students to make up for it doesn't work.

All this could be rectified with co-operation of unions and officials all the way up from local to federal level and a return to the essential basics of sound educational practices

From my own personal experience private schools don't always deserve the positive image they seem to enjoy. My daughter attended a private non-denominational Christian school from age five up to middle school grade. We enrolled her there because my wife and I both had to work and the school provided child care facilities at additional cost of course. When it came time for her to go into 7th grade at middle school we pulled her out from the private school and enrolled her in one of the local middle schools. While not behind scholastically in her new school she was certainly not ahead either.

Private schools are only as good as the salaries and benefits they can afford to pay their staff and not all of them are rolling in money either. I think politicians like Betsy DeVos see them only through blinkers.

scrubbedexpat099

I know there are issues in Denver etc where the governing bodies are elected and the Teacher Unions spend a lot of time and effort ensuring that those voted in are friendly.

Should the governing bodies have the best interests of the children or teachers at heart?

morpeth

I agree unions can be a strong and beneficial force to protect their members, but also at times they can be detrimental which - in the states I have lived in- they are in public schools. The difficulty of firing an incompetent or substandard teacher is too much ! I agree with you about right to work laws- if one believes in capitalism, they why shouldn't a private organization ( a union) and a private business be left alone to negotiate whatever deal they want.

I agree with you about private schools that they are not necessarily better academically, and since they often follow the state curriculum sometimes just the same. However I note, as in most of your posts, you appear to think money is the issue for better educational standards- many teachers I have met in private schools earn less money than public school teachers, but want out of the bureaucracy or dealing with unruly children without standards.

I am unsure what the unions and local officials could do to improve standards since there is a perverse incentive for them to continue the system,- less accountability ( except excessive silly testing some states enforce upon them) since hard to get fired, an ideology so stringent that free speech and initiative frowned upon, and their excellent pensions and vacation time.

I am generalizing as of course there are some excellent public school teachers.

Parent teacher conferences can often be a joke. Parents feel they are "involved" and go often just to hear a lot of nice things, so they feel good. Maybe if they didn't give their children cell phones or computers, watched their diet better, and had real consequences for bad grades ( if the school gives bad grades) they would be better parents than going to conferences.

I don't remember having less time in school but I do remember being expected to learn. English not my strongest class by far, yet what we were expected to have read by the time of graduation was a lot more than student today. (Many text books now look like websites with "pop-up" smatterings of this or that).

I cant see any harm and much benefit in vouchers. If the public school administrators and teachers so proud of their performance they wouldn't fear vouchers.

morpeth

The teachers are just protecting their interests, which are not the same as the students, so the situation you mention is part of how things have become as they are.

I remember many years ago in California in an area it was found than unknown alternative administrative body had been set up through some addition to legislation, but apparently no one in the local school districts amongst parents and some teachers knew about it. This group was reviewing policies and procedures received from the state , then would send them back to the state, which would then send them for review to the "official" administrative body which was located in the same district, which would then send the policies back to the state.

Local public teachers I hear in conversations whining about their salaries yet hard to see how if they got a 5 or 10% raise how that would make them teach differently.

tuxedocat

johnwoo

You haven't explained what it is about private (voucher/ religious) schools that makes them better than public schools.
Paying the teachers less than public school teachers, because good teachers don't need to be paid well?
Crumbly building and less access to "gadgets" like computers and microscopes or science labs. Because all the things aren't required.
Asian and Indian families are moving into my area where the public schools are considered excellent, because generally the parents tend to value a good education.

scrubbedexpat091

I would hope the education system has improved since the 80's and 90's but doesn't seem it has in some areas.

I know from my high school education, the teachers were crap for the most part, teaching was not high on their list of things to do. I graduated nowhere near a level where university was an option, I wasn't even prepared for community college level classes.

But the teachers of my school were all 2-3 years away from retirement, most having been at the school since the 1960's, and were likely burned out and just waiting to collect their retirement checks.

dc koop

From what I remember of my daughter,s years at the private parochial school she was well up on the bible and prayers but was lacking in knowledge of our Constitution, the Amendments and the functions of the different branches of government. Any time spent on religion in the classroom is a waste of time. I'm not anti-religion, just believe that it should be confined to where it belongs, inside the four walls of a church. Why would a government be interested in providing vouchers for a private parochial school?

This is sneaky Evangelicalism sticking it's nose into where it doesn't belong. I wonder if non-Christian private schools. ie Muslim for example will qualify for vouchers ?

zargof

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664

So Trump is saying the election is invalid. Seems like a full recount is needed.

dakota44

Donald Trump’s False Cry-Baby Election Recount Tweet - The Daily Beast

BEVS

Are these tweet things real? Are they him ? Or part of his entourage?
Seems a most bizarre way to carry on to me.

dakota44

You are forgetting how bizarre Trump really is.

BEVS

Perhaps right. I do remember Balmedie and what he did and has done to what was that very special area, the village and the people.

I don't really bother with twitter so the idea of a grown man ranting via twitter is pathetic to me. Mind you I say that , his rants and wants hurt people.

robin1234

I cannot believe trump is now taking this line. He's not only bizarre but he's profoundly stupid. God help America.

morpeth

There are numerous advantages of the voucher system - it gives parents choice and some leverage over poor performing public schools, and yes the choice on the type of education they want for their children. How on earth can this be bad for children ? If according to theory it results in more money, per student, in public schools it should be a win-win situation for all. Why should poor or lower income families have to put up with poor public schools ?

As far as your opinion that religion in school is a waste of time that of course is a debatable opinion- the point of vouchers is the freedom to chose what is best by parents. Judging from parochial schools I have experience of, the results on the children certainly more positive than what I saw in public schools.

Each parochial school is different- for example there is a vast difference in many Catholic and Episcopal parochial schools than schools run by evangelical denominations. The vouchers can be used for a whole variety of private schools. In a nearby city there is a bi-lingual school, a school for artistic children that definitely is to the left of even the public schools, and I am unaware of any voucher system that restricts use of vouchers to any particular religion or denomination.

Two schools of which I had children in, one Catholic and one Episcopal, followed state curriculums- and for students to participate in requirements for in-state tuition etc, had to take certain courses and take certain tests. Since the schools generally performed better than public schools, hardly were they deficient in the areas you mention. Briefly one child of ours was in a Baptist school, they definitely inserted religion in every class and were a bit extreme, on the other hand students were very well-behaved, disciplined, and the school had few drug and alcohol problems. That school was safe and generally academic standards no worse than public schools.

I cant believe in a free and caring society that when an opportunity is presented for parents to choose a school that may have better academic quality, or is safer or better socially, or suits the ideology the parents believe in, that parents shouldn't have he opportunity to choose what is best for their children.