Zen10

It's worth pointing out even to a troll that the US intervened in 1917 and 1941 to protect its own interests, a worthy use of taxpayers' money, I would have thought. As I have just had to point out to someone else, in 1945 US share of global GDP was 50%, so the investment paid off.

Sunshinestate

I am sorry you think me a troll, and re-reading my posts I can see now that they were badly constructed and at times poorly worded.

Yes, we intervened to protect our own interests, as did the Soviets. They fought the Germans to protect their very survival and fought the bulk of the Nazi forces. This is true. They did not fight them to save France or Great Britain as they had a non-aggression pact with those very same Nazis when Britain was facing the blitz. Interestingly, Germany was receiving raw materials from China in the early years of the war, iirc.

My post before was a rather clumsy way of intimating that the US government has wasted our money on foolhardy missions. We had a chance to drop alliances that were predicated on the Cold war..the aftermath of WWII but the Soviet Union fell. The Soviet Union gone..the Warsaw Pact gone...why do we need NATO? It should have been done away with to reassure Russia we have no ill intent.

Instead we went on a rather dreadful and idiotic notion of expanding NATO, which was dumb, stupid and ridiculous. Obviously, intervening eventually in the world wars started by Europeans and Asians was of necessity and the right thing to do. We are not that clever though. I am sure we did not realize during the course of the war that "our side" would win and leave us the pre-eminent economic power. Then again, if you look at the Marshall Plan, obviously some sinister thoughts were around. However, our conduct post 1945 leaves a lot to be desired in many ways.

It is not a criticism of foreign powers, but one of my own government that wastes tax payers dollars trying to fulfill outdated defense treaties when those countries are more than capable of defending themselves and frankly, it seems, those countries would rather not have us interfering. European defense needs met by Europeans without American interference would seem something we could agree. Am I wrong?

It makes practical economic sense on the one hand to end these protection agreements, but also would show we do not want to be world's policeman, because frankly we aren't good at it. Our intervention at times has hindered progress rather than promoting it. These are the things I wish would stop.

The US has intervened militarily in places that it had no business. Iraq, Vietnam, Serbia, Somalia....Lebanon....and some less overt like what we did in some South American countries.

The irony here, although you call me a troll, is that I probably would agree with much of your criticisms of my government and my country.

Anyway, I happened by out of a strange happenstance of a google search, and by no means wish to upset the apple cart. I actually respect and admire the UK in its contributions to the arts, sciences and literature and the influence of English common law on our founding. Lurking on the threads I have read here, it seems though that you expats that are in the US have made a dreadful mistake, based on your own complaints. None of you seem very happy here. Of course, I might not understand the vitriol at times, as the British have a different way of expression than Americans.

Have a nice day*,

SS

*said because I know how much you love that expression.

steveq

....to be read in conjunction with the "critical thinking in the USA" thread.....
I think your analysis is correct, that the US acts in its own naked interests, the same as everyone else.

Sunshinestate

Actually it does if you read all of it, and the entire premise of the original post was that Americans do not understand the outside world well and have a skewed view based on what is taught here, which I assumed was the theme of his "10 things". I could, and did, expand on this actually, but not all that well. It is far worse than he stated frankly.

I am a troll, but agreed with most of the OP's point? Or is being a troll defined by disagreeing with the predominant political thought here? I thought the British could handle a minor point of disagreement.

Ok. I was wrong.

SS

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me."

Sunshinestate

Yes, I read some of that thread and "dlake's" concerns are of merit but another poster thought perhaps it is his delivery which might be hindering him or her.

It is not that Americans are void of "critical thought", it is just, imho, that it manifests itself differently. Certainly fighting the orthodoxy of a particular company can be frustrating. I am American and still think the people that run my company haven't the IQ of a house plant.

Dlake is obviously intelligent and will find a way to perhaps better ingratiate himself with that company rather than telling them they are incompetent boobs that have no critical thinking skills unless they do it his or her way. It might take a while, but I am sure he or she will be on the winning side.

SS

Sunshinestate

True, we are no different than any major power in history. We do have a strange notion of what our "interests" are.

Riddle me this. We still are the bulk of NATO forces(salute to those that went to Afghanistan, btw), but Europe has a greater population and a greater gdp than the US. Still, we think Europe would not survive without us!

Have you ever heard a more preposterous notion! You are more than capable of providing for you own defense. You have the economic capability, the common sense, the history to know what to do, but our political leaders think we need to be there on a permanent basis!

As if Europe needed our "genius" to figure things out. American's and particularly our government can be very arrogant.

Our government, whether Democrat or Republican, thinks we are really all that is needed by Europe. Our hubris staggers the mind at times. It is wrong headed and not wanted or needed.

I am sorry for this need of American acquisition of power. We have lost our way, frankly.

SS

steveq

Given that my aim is to move to your side of the pond ASAP, you may deduce from my choice of future residence what I think the chances are of the "Europeans" - whoever they'll be when the Euro collapses- of being able to organise anything.

To be honest, I really don't see why the USA has any presence in Europe mainland, anymore than I see why the UK still maintains garrisons in Germany too.

See: European union. Make your own judgement on "common sense"

Invade Poland ?

Sunshinestate

It is a crap shoot to find that pot of gold, no?

Think and research carefully. From my understanding, Australia and Canada are more fitting for British subjects wishing to move. Of course, if you come here, we welcome you...no really....with open arms, but do your due diligence. My country has a lot to offer, but it isn't for everyone, as you no doubt can read here.

European nations have much to offer Americans if we would only seek it out. The reverse is also true. We do some things better, while Europeans clearly are better at say...cars. LOL. Honestly.

Just be damn sure of what you are doing. Sure, living abroad for a while would be nice, but I don't have the guts.

I actually want to visit Chile again. I loved the coast on Vina Del Mar...I remember the beauty of southern France and Florence Italy is etched on my mind.

I guess what I am saying is the grass is not greener......be very sure of what you are doing. Read what other expats have to say and judge accordingly.

SS

Sunshinestate

This has been fun so far...

Now for a brief musical interlude...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfbvm52G8fE

Rock on.

SS

Speedwell

After typing a number of things and thinking better of them before I typed, I'll restrain myself to let out one very small "Don't teach your grandmothers to suck eggs". And I'll refer my fellow countryman to the forum here dedicated to people who want to move to, or move back to, the UK. And I'm going to quietly take my leave of this thread before I really do type the other things I thought better of.

Sunshinestate

What? No balls?

LOL....

Why do you feel constrained? Grow a set of nads and say what you mean. Most believe as you do here.

Ok I am just teasing. Sort of.

Come on, let it ease off your keyboard. You obviously have much to teach me. I am so ignorant. Let it fly man!

SS

Sunshinestate

I did consider that. Is my disagreement with you boring? Do you normally surround yourself with people that agree with you? Have you considered that you are off a bit and that we probably can find agreement?

It is unlike a British expat or one married to same to exclude the possibility. However, if you find me boring, I will understand.

SS

Sally Redux

Exactly what he was talking about.

Sunshinestate

Here is hoping to his success. It is very difficult for a home grown American to break down barriers, much less an import. The nuts and bolts of his argument is correct. He just needs to understand the animal he is dealing with. When he does that, he will succeed.

SS

Sally Redux

He was not talking about that though.

His point, I think, is that there is so much ingratiating going on that the important work is not getting done.