Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know if it's possible to do a PGCE in Spain? Or online? I live in Barcelona, and I really want to get into "proper" teaching, after a few years of working in academies. The problem is that I don't have quite enough qualifications to teach in Catalan secondary schools, and the biggest barrier to doing that is that the powers that be in Madrid keep refusing to recognise my degree. So I've had a re-think, and as there are a lot of international schools here, I thought that maybe doing a PGCE is the way to go. The only problem is that I'm about to get married and my soon-to-be husband cannot relocate right now, so if I only had the option of doing a PGCE in the UK it would mean leaving him for a year. Something which I'm obviously not that keen on doing!

Can anyone give me some good advice?

Cheers,
Margie

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Doubt it'd be possible, how would you do the placements required and have some able to supervise you and assess you? Never heard of it ever been done :confused:

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I dont know of any place that would allow you to do it in Spain.

I considered this when we moved to Europe and couldnt find any University that would do it. All the UK ones require UK placements.
Open University does PGCE but require UK placements. So you would need to go to UK for a year.

Only place Ive heard is I think Dubia (via UK university), and think Singapore via Australia university.

Gems

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

There's an Irish one very like the British one, from a college called Hibernia, but like the UK ones, requires a placement in its country, so an Irish placement.

But, I hate to put a dampner on this... if Spain won't recognise your degree NOW, it's incredibly unlikely that doing a PGDE will alter that.
In most countries, both your main degree and teaching qualifications are checked for suitability when you apply to the relevant teaching authority.

You may have looked into this already, so I may be wrong but do be careful and check it out. The EU Directive on teaching is very clear that they look at both the BA and the PGDE before granting suitability to teach.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Thanks for your reply. I probably didn't make my original message very clear re. recognition of my degree.

In Spain, you have to do something called "homologation of your title". I have an MA in English, so pretty straightforward you might think. But if they think that the course you did in Britain isn't similar enough to the equivalent course in Spain, then they refuse to homologate it. Which is what has happened to me.

If I did a PGCE I would bypass all that, as I would then apply to British/International schools here, who would recognise my original degree for what it is, and not require me to homologate it.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

hey margie. I know you said you didnt want to go to the uk to do your pgce but you might as well.you could always fly back and forth a bit. then you have got your pgce in your hand in no time. time flies girl. then you would be laughing and could apply to the international and british schools and so on. have you thought about getting on to a course that starts this september? may not be too late you know. stop arsing about and trying to do things by halves long distance and bite the bullet and go for it! :thumbsup:
by the way, why only secondary? thought about primary? i am starting a pgce primary with italian this sep at canterbury. i know for a fact that they are looking for people to fill the places on their primary modern languages course. its to do with the new gov initiative to get languahe teachers into primary schools, and between you, me and the rest of the forum, they are crting out for people with languages to take up the course. look at it like a back door to the pgce, as other courses are notorously competitive. by the way you get an all expenses paid month in the country of which you are studying the language, in your case spain.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Hi, I was in the same position as you and decided to come to the UK to do my PGCE. However, I think that there's a university in the UK which will let you do a PGCE in Spain or Dubai, although I have to say, I feel so supported in a UK unversity - a PGCE is an incredible amount of work, and there is plenty of theory and hard work to be getting on with. Unless you live near an academic library with books in English, I can't see how doing it in Spain could possibly provide you with the same rigorous preparation for teaching.

I think it is the University of Sunderland which provides the course - see http://pgcespain.com/en/who.php for more info.

Hope that helps :)

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

the PGCE is almost totally classroom based - so I don't quite see how you could do that in Spain

you might, however find that some International schools will take you with your current degree


AFAIK you are actually 'more qualified' than the heads of the International schools around here. I know that the head of one of the upper schools has just a BA, and I believe that at least one primary school head has no degree at all

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Hi,

am thinking of doing the same myself. check out
http://pgcespain.com/en/who.php
they've been offering a PGCE in spain for 3 years - done as correspondence course with british university, all practicals in british schools in spain.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has started this international pgce course? I am teaching English in Japan at the moment and hope to come back to Europe in 2010, ideally Spain.

I have contacted the school but am struggling to get information about the course. My main concern is the fact the qualification will not allow you to teach in the UK or Ireland after. This is not a priority at the moment, but who knows about the future. Also, given the current job situation perhaps I might not be able to get employment in Spain directly after the course.

I have an easy, secure job here in Japan, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush as they say, but I would dearly love to live and teach in Spain.

OK, thanks for all your help! Very appreciated.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

The Dubai one is through Sunderland but it's not the same as a proper PGCE, there's a question mark about your status at the end of it.

http://www.dubaifaqs.com/university-...rland-pgce.php

I thought there was another PGCE started this year in Dubai. I forget which university and can't find it now. Will update if I do. Stafford or Strathclyde I think.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Yeah they are all PGCE international. I have enquired with PGCE Spain as thats where I would like to teach for a few years, same thing. They explained that you have 5 years to return to UK and get QTS status, but she could not say for definite because nobody had ever done it!!

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I am supposed to be doing the course which will be done in conjunction with Nottingham University. They haven´t given me much info despite already asking for the fees to be paid. They say that it is starting in February but I am still waiting for term dates, course information etc. I am starting to worry as they don´t seem very organised. The lack of QTS status worries me a bit having chatted to teacher friends but since I don´t plan to return to the UK in the near future I am not too worried. Nevertheless, I cannot afford to spend money on a course which might not lead to anything.

PM me if you want to chat PGCEi.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I tried to msg you but I need to make 3 posts on forum before I can pm.

I completely understand your feelings on the course, basically it is the exact same for me. Everything seems chaotic, the email responses, the information available. Were you included on the mail last last week about the course deferred until february? It all seems strange. Plus the added doubt over future QTS status.

Hopefully I can pm you now!

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Yes I did receive that email. When they say the course starts in Feb I haven´t a clue what they mean. Will there be meeting for us all? I would a least like to be able to plan my year.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I have no idea, I'm still thinking about whether to do it in January or Setpember. Regarding potential jobs from it, I assume the hiring period for international schools is around September. So how would that work? If you did it in January, unless a school was in dire straits, you may have to wait until September 2011 anyway.

Will you be working at the same time? I am thinking of doing it online from Japan, and then my tp in a 12 week teaching block when my contract ends. But it might be difficult to complete from here, without textbooks/support etc, I have heard it is very demanding. I asked PGCEi this but go not reply.

Anyway, I just pm'd you!

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I have one more post until I can PM. I have looked at the TES and many international schools are recruiting deadline January to start in September. I live in Spain and write content for websites but I have done TEFL in the past.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I wonder if the OP considered doing the Spanish equivalent of a PGCE? It used to be called CAP and it lasted about 6 months, I didn't do it but the opinion from friends at the time was that it wasn't too hard at all, more like a formality they needed to fulfill before teaching. One or two years ago the CAP (Curso de Aptitud Pedagogica) changed to a Masters course, can't remember the title, but further details would be available on the website of the relevant university, under the 'estudios de tercer ciclo' area (post-grad).
I am assuming this is recognised in the UK because some teaching assistants who had completed their CAPs in Spain ended up working and living in Britain, but somewhere like the TDA would be able to advise.

I didn't go into teaching (it didn't suit me), but had some experience in classrooms in Spain and England, and the resources available (esp. technology), numbers, teaching methods and expectations were quite different - this was a few years back, so things will probably have moved on a bit.

Hope you find this useful and good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

One of my family members is already doing this course... what did you want to know and I'll ask for you...

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I have loads of questions but the most important ones are:

Is the course well organised?

Do they feel concerned that it does not give you QTS?

What do they think of the cost of the course?

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Ok. Are you going to do primary or secondary? What subject?

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

primary

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I feel I could have written this posting myself. I have exactly the same misgivings. The very straightforward questions I ask are not answered. The timetable for Feb 2010 came out so late that I now have conflicting commitments and can't decide what to do. I have lots of other questions that no one is prepared to answer such as the QTS question, the need for GCSE level Science if you are doing Primary, location of school where TP and other meetings will take place. And above all, I probably won't stay in Spain so will this qualification travel.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I wouldn't recommend the PGCE Spain option for anyone. This is simply a money making operation for a private school in Spain. Avoid:thumbdown:

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

That is what I am fearing farthing, do you know anyone who has had experience of the course and the people associated?

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Please keep up this conversation as I am following it with interest. I am also thinking of doing the PGCE. I've found out it's a PGCEi (i for international) that does not give QTS status and cannot be used in UK. It is delivered in Valencia in conjunction with university of Nottingham, who have similar arrangements with Thailand and other places. I'd been keen to get feedback on the course though, and employment possibilities afterwards. I am intending to teach in Spain.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain -Spain
 

HELP! I am in exactly the same position. I have applied to do the PGCE Spain course, but I also feel it is badly organised and am having difficulty getting straight answers.
Regarding the QTS, I think it would be possible to gain this in Britain, we would have 4 years during which we'd need to teach for a year in UK in order to gain the QTS.
A lot of the international schools require the QTS but some may be willing to waver this in preference for experience and or someone who already lives here in Spain. Is there anyone out there who is actually doing this course, or has done it?

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I rang Uni of Nottingham to get more info. She said it is not a full PGCE course. It does not cover all the content requirements and is not as rigorous in entry requirements. That is why you cannot get QTS. It would not be recognised if you are in UK and you would have to do a PGCE again in UK to be able to go for QTS. However, she did say that int. schools in Spain accept it (I'm sure she would say that) though I think they would rather have someone with the full qualification and QTS. Has anyone done the course? If you are planning to do the course, ring Valencia and ask for numbers or emails of ex-students.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

It is a risky option, I will not be doing it.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

oh flip, so you mean I wouldn't be able to apply for the QTS based on this qualification? Now I don't know what to do, I guess if I ever did want to teach in the UK I could do one of the school placement teacher qualifications. It's a lot of money eh?
I'm going to try and get hold of someone who's done and see if they've been able to find work with this qualification, is there any other way of studying PGCE on line?
Thanks guys this is really helping as I have lots of questions and doubts

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Hi I would not touch a PGCEi. I have been a trainer / teacher in the UK for a decade and am very highly qualified as a trainer and have done PTTLLS and CTTLLS. However, the PGCEi is apparently not compatible with the UK PGCE. I have done most of the work towards a PGCE but redundancy from the college prevented me from completing it! However, the work I have already done is not recognised by PGCE Spain. You have to start again and their qual does not provide Qualified Teacher Status - which a PGCE should. It seems to me to be a complete waste of money.

However, if anyone knows how to attain QTS here in Spain, please divulge....


Failing that, I am off to Valencia to the University to find out how to do it. I am fluent English and French and advanced Spanish so I want to teach and make this life here work!

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

That's what I've been hearing too. The qualification counts for nothing concrete, neither here and definitely not in Britain. It may be enough to get your foot through the door of private schools here, but even private schools have to abide by certain certification requirements for their teachers. Previously, the powers that be cast a blind eye over these, but apparently they are getting stricter so I think less and less private schools will be willing to take on uncertified teachers.

Best thing is to arrive with your UK qualifications, which are easily convertible.

Good luck with making it work.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I have also been following the PGCI Spain and am considering doing it. My problem is I don't know what the outcome is once you have the qualification. I would be interested to hear from those who have completed the course to see if they believe it was worth while. I have been in contact with the university for information and they have explained the basics. But what I would really like to know is how successful is the course? And if many private schools in Spain accept the qualification.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

hi all,
I am looking into taking the PGCEi with Nottingham uni via distance learning. I understand from this thread that some people on this will have finished the course by now.
How was it?
Has it helped your job applications? I am not interested in returning to the UK so am not worried about the QTS for there but will I need it for international schools abroad or is the pgcei enough? I already have a BA a CELTA and 2 years teaching experience.
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Hello world. This is my first post.

I can answer most questions about the PGCEi. See below.

I'm so confused about the whole post graduate arena of study. Which one is best, most affordable and most useful? It really is a minefield! Just so know which angle i'm coming from, here's my backdrop.

I have...

(1) B.A Hons
(2) PTLLS (Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector)
(3) CTLLS (Certificate to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector)
(4) TESOL Trinity College London
(5) 8 years teaching ESL in Thailand and 1 year teaching ESOL and As/A2 Law in England (College).

I want: To get a job overseas (preferably Middle East or Japan) in an international school. I've been told about a whole raft of qualifications that are out there, but it's all confusing me. I just don't know which one to do. Some are unaffordable, some are not practical, some are not recognized overseas, some don't confer QTS, some do confer QTS....urgghh...:confused:

Here are the options.

(a) PGCE
(b) PGCEi
(c) GTP (Graduate Teacher Programme)
(d) ECIS International Teacher Certificate (ITC) via Cambridge University
(e) PGCE for Lifelong Learning (Colleges)

PGCE
Ideally, i think we would all agree that the PGCE is the most widely accepted and it attracts QTS. But it costs GBP 9000....! That's a non-started.

PGCEi
Costs GBP 3500. No QTS with this course. However, 3 or 4 ex-colleagues in Thailand acquired this qualification and all of them now work in 2nd Tier International Schools. One works in Japan and is earning about GBP 40,000 as a maths teacher...! The PGCEi can be done via distance learning via Nottingham Uni. It can also be done with cohorts in Bangkok, Lagos, Valencia, Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur and Dubai.

GTP
Attracts QTS, GBP 16000 salary while you train, funding to cover the course fees (courtesy of TDA). Very competitive and the subjects on offer are not attractive (Religious Education, Sciences, Modern Foreign Languages) or relevant to my degree (Law). I teach and want to continue teaching English/ESOL/ESL......what's the point changing direction? Is there a way around this? Does anyone know of a GTP course suitable for English/ESL/ESOL teachers? Another problem with this GTP.....you have to find your own school to train at. I imagine this will be very difficult. Can anyone comment?

ECIS International Teacher Certificate (ITC) via Cambridge University.
This is a new one, which i saw for the first time yesterday. Costs GBP 1900. One year study. I don't think it attracts QTS. A friend of mine who's a Headmaster at an international school said that this qualification would not be recognized by most International Schools. Worthless, in other words. Does anyone agree/disagree?

PGCE (Lifelong Learning)
This seems to be a PGCE for teachers wishing to teach in colleges in UK. It's a bit knew to me. Does it get you QTS? IS is recognized abroad? How much does it cost? Will International primary/secondary schools accept it?

Sorry for such a long post, but it really is a minefield!!

Please help.....my head is spinning!

MeAndMrsJones....
XX

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

I am currently located in Hong Kong and am in a similar position to a lot of people here, so this thread makes for very interesting reading. I have recently applied for the HK university PGDE, but this is specific to the HK education system and so there are always questions over whether this can be used outside HK, and obviously it has not QTS with it. The only alternative seems to be the PGCEi, but like others here, they will not respond to questions over how useful it is. Someone I know currently studying it made the comment that the work for it all seems rather vague to.

So other than moving back to the UK for it (not an option for the time being), there really seems little choice when it comes to practical qualifications.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Seems like this whole forum is dead. Yours is the first reply i've had since i posted my original query at about 5 weeks ago.

Personally, if you are in HK it is kind of a blessing in disguise - there are less courses available to you to cloud the judgement. If i were you i would seriously look at the PGCEi. You can enroll in Shanghai. I think they have intakes in Jan and Sept each year. Get in touch with Nottingham University to find out more.

There is another option too. Check out the (Diploma to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector) DTLLS course. DTLLS can be done online via a UK firm called Bright Assessing (among others). I'm not sure what qualifications you have, but i think you need to have PTLLS(level 3) and CTLLS (level 4) but don't take my word for it. But even so, PTLLS and CTLLS can be done online too. But maybe other quals will suffice in order to get you enrolled on DTLLS.

DTLLS costs about GBP 1000 and can be done online and it also attracts QTLS (Qualified Teacher Learner Skills status) and this is just as good as PGCE and all the others because QTLS basically means that you are fully qualified. You will have to join the IfL (Institute for Learning) to get your QTLS conferred. People who have QTLS via the DTLLS route are able to teach in UK colleges. As from April this year, that will extend to being able to teach in schools too, thanks to some sweeping changes made recently. It will have parity with a traditional QTS, in other words.

Good luck....

If DTLLS is not possible for whatever, i would definitely go for the PGCEi. It's the next best thing and, as i wrote in my original post, friends of mine are being well received at International Schools and they are earning decent levels of pay. However, i feel that PGCEi will decrease in value/prestige in the next 5 years or so for the sole reason that it does not confer QTS or QTLS. Just my opinion..

Cheers

Me&MrsJones

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Dear Me&MrsJones,
Just a quick reply to your first post. I have the PGCE in Post-Compulsory Sector, which I think is what you referred to at the end of your mail, i.e. for teaching in further education. Unfortunately this does not grant QTS, however there are ways of gaining this but it usually means working in a primary or secondary school, and I'm not sure that is your area of interest.
A friend of mine did her PGCE in the UK secondary school years ago, didn't get around to gaining QTS. She was lucky enough though to get a job in an International School in Thailand, just on the basis that she had trained in the UK, and they didn't require her to have QTS. She's still there several years down the line. Unfortunately I'm not sure what the situation is in the ME or in Japan.

This is just a general answer to the initial query, but it seems that getting QTS or work in International schools in Europe, is much, much more difficult.

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

Hi.

Yes, PGCE in Post-Compulsory is what i was referring to. I am open to working in primary and secondary. If i took the PGCE Post-Compulsory is it possible to attain the qualification and then go on to get QTS by working oversaes....or is QTS only awarded if you are working in the UK?

There are certainly more jobs in Primary/Secondary than in further or higher education - especially in the UK. I have no interest in staying in the UK long term though, so ME or Japan appear to be my preferred destinations at this moment in time. A return to Thailand is not beyond consideration either - especially if i could get in to an International School.

What kind of salary is your friend earning in Thailand? If it is 80,000 Thai 'baht' per month or more it is enough to provide a very comfortable standard of living.

Thanks...

Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain
 

If you want to work in either primary or secondary, and you can stick out the UK for a year, I would do your PGCE in either of those sectors as you will also gain your experience in whichever sector whilst doing the training. (sorry, haven't had a chance to look at your original post again so I may be confused) I wish I had done this rather than the post-compulsory PGCE because while you can get QTS with the primary or secondary PGCE very easily, it is much more difficult when your training and experience is in further education colleges. Also, as a supply Teacher without QTS, you are more likely to be employed as an Instructor, which pays much less. These latter points are not the issue for you, but I would urge you not to bother with post-compulsory PGCE if you want to work in an International or British school overseas.
I will try and find out how much my friend is earning, bear in mind that her PGCE was in the secondary sector but she still managed to get a job in a primary school in Thailand, so there are options.