WS

I don't understand why you would contact TeachingAustralia once you have found a course for Kate in Australia.

Because you will not be claiming the 5 spouse points, Kate does not need to get a skills assessment - there is no point. Once you jointly get the PR visa it is completely up to you what courses/work you do or don't do (they couldn't care less!) Kate would not need a skills assessment for any reason once you've got the PR visa.

Again I would recommend getting the application in before 1st September if possible before the change in visas.

Simon.and.Kate

Your right, it'd be the QLD Teaching Council that I'd need to check with, to make sure they acknowledge her qualifications and allow here to register to teach...

You say about 'applying' before Sept 1st? Why will it make a difference? (Sorry I have not read that far into it yet)

And when you say 'apply' - do you mean for a Visa? I won't be able to do that until I get my Skills Assessment, right? and that might not arrive before then...

Realistically, as we're coming to Australia on vacation next week, we're not in a financial posistion to apply for anything at the moment...

WS

From the 1st Sept, points for english language drops to 15, unless you sit the IELTS test and score 7 or higher in each band which would then give you 25 points.

This may not be a problem, but it will take time to sit and travel to the exam and the cost.

Teaching skills assessments usually take 4-6 weeks to get back

Simon.and.Kate

More information, Kate still wasn't happy and wanted to 'take this further' - see below for her email and the two responses we received.

So there *might* be some considerations made if it can be proven that the 3 year course contains the same work as a 4 year course...

More importantly, we're waiting to hear from the Queensland College of Teachers for their opinion of this, and if it'd stop Kate from registering as a teacher in QLD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: Kate Brooker [mailto:[email protected]]>Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2007 4:27 AM>To: Overseasquals; Kristy Dodd; Jennifer Forest>Cc: [email protected]>Subject: FW: UK to Aus - 3 year BA + QTS Primary Degree>>

Many thanks for your responses to the questions from my partner, Simon Ward.

The information pack from Teaching Australia states in Section 2 - Skills Assessment Criteria: "Completion of study comparable to at least four years of full-time tertiary level study (or the part-time equivalent) in Australia"

Many universities in the UK are now offering the 3 year Primary Education Degree with longer terms and more time teaching in school as an 'intense' degree which covers exactly the same amount of work and hours as the 4 year degree. The modules and work covered in the 3 year course is exactly the same as the 4 year option and many universities now only offer the 3 year degree.

I would like clarification regarding why the three year BA (Hons) Degree in Primary Education with QTS is not recognised?

Would confirmation from my university supporting that this is an intensive course equivalent to the 4 year degree rather than a standard 3 year degree be of any help? I have now been teaching for 5 years and am currently a Maths Subject Leader within my school. Would evidence of my achievements as a teacher and references from my school have any influence?

It seems that although I have been teaching for 5 years my skills and experience are unrecognised and I am considered 'unskilled', whereas somebody who has completed a 3 year degree could complete a 1 year PGCE which includes 30 days supervised teaching practice and then be recognised as 'skilled' without any actual teaching experience.

Thank you again for your previous responses, I look forward to hearing from you.

Kate Brooker

--------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jennifer Forest" <[email protected] To: "Kate Brooker" <[email protected] Subject: RE: UK to Aus - 3 year BA + QTS Primary Degree Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:28:19 +1000

Good Morning

The four year tertiary level study policy in Australia is implemented at both the state and national government levels. At this point in time, no organization accepts work experience in lieu of qualifications, regardless of the value of work experience (I suspect it may be one of those things considered too hard to quantify and judge fairly between teachers).

Australia has implemented this policy over several decades and I am unaware of any organization ie/ education department or teacher registration board or other such organisations as ourselves who make any exemptions for any Australian trained or overseas trained teachers. The reality is that in Australia all teachers need to be four year trained.
However, if you can demonstrate through evidence provided by your university that you did complete the equivalent of four years of tertiary level study through fast tracking/ concentration of the units and credit hours into three years that may be acceptable. We are aware that some UK universities have fast tracked the standard four year Bachelor of Education into three years by adding in additional academic weeks, but students complete the same number of credit hours and academic content as those who take four years. If your university can provide sufficient evidence, clearly outlining how you completed four years in three, we will consider it for the purposes of a skills assessment for migration. It is in your best interest to make sure you include as much information as you can obtain (including a letter of explanation from the university and course outline, syllabus etc), your academic transcript for the course and your award certificate for the course.

However I can not speak for any of the teacher registration boards, with whom you will need to be registered to work. We only do migration assessments as it's a national responsibility, work and registration is a state responsibility. You should talk to the teacher registration board for the state in which you are going to live to see what their policy is on the matter. Their contact details are: http://www.teachingaustralia.edu.au/.../accreditation

Regards,
Jennifer Forest
Skills Assessment Unit Teaching Australia - Australian Institute for Teaching and School Leadership

--------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Overseasquals" <[email protected] To: "Kate Brooker" <[email protected] Subject: RE: UK to Aus - 3 year BA + QTS Primary Degree Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:02:03 +1000

Dear Ms Brooker

The guidelines by which we assess applications are based upon the education and training that must be undertaken by domestically trained teachers in Australia. Australian teachers usually undertake at least 4 years of university level study as well as the teaching practicum that is contained within their Initial Teacher Training Course.

All applicants, regardless of where they undertook their university education in the world, are expected to meet these minimum academic requirements for the purposes of this skills assessment. In order to obtain a successful skills assessment outcome, all applicants are required to submit suitable evidence that they meet all the requirements of the skills assessment.

If you are able to obtain a statement from the university at which you studied which indicates that the 3 year Bachelor of Education program that you completed has the same number of credits, courses, and course content as the 4 year Bachelor of Education then we would certainly take that information into account when assessing an application.

If you have any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Kristy Dodd
Assessment Officer Teaching Australia - Australian Institute for Teaching and School Leadership

Babsw

Wow, am so impressed, you really put all the relevant info.so clearly, Kate! I hope this makes a diffference for you because I feel this is a really valid point especially in your case where you have all this experience. I know we were told when we joined our course that it was exactly the same as the four year course but, as you say, condensed with longer terms and longer teaching placements. It won't help me as I haven't even got my NQT year yet but I do feel it is hard on some one like your self with all this experience however I must say the people you emailed seemed pretty reasonable to me, they are not saying no but are giving you the chance to prove your case which I feel is extremely hopeful. Let us know how you get on, you might start a whole new scenario for teachers migrating to Aus. Babs.

Simon.and.Kate

Cheers Babs,

I'll pass this on to Kate.

We emailled the Queensland College of Teachers too, as we've decided that they're the ones we need to convince really. We've had no reply yet. If we've not heard anything by next week we'll be phoning them (as we'll be in Queensland by then anyway).

I must say, the people we dealt with at Teach Australia were very good and always replied within 24 hours. I hope that the "we will consider it" is the sign of potentional, and not just to shut us up...

On a positive note - we both finished school today for 6 weeks, and take off on monday for our 5 week holiday (come research/fact finding mission) down under...

Get In!

WS

Have you heard from the Queensland College of Teaching yet?

Simon.and.Kate

Hi Folks, sorry for not getting back to you with this - we're now in Sunny Queensland, and being sat at a PC seems to be the last thing I want to be doing at the minute...

We got the following reply, which looks very positive and suggests that experience would be considered over qualifications alone...


------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Heather Shaw" <[email protected]>
>To: "Kate Brooker" <[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Registering to Teach in QLD
>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:33:15 +1000
>
>Dear Kate
>
>Thank you for your email enquiry.
>
>The Qld College of Teachers has a 4 year academic requirement. An
>applicant with a 3 year BA(Hons)(QTS) degree would not automatically be
>eligible for registration in this State. There are several issues
>involved here -
>1) if you wanted your degree recognised as the equivalent of four
>years of academic study, with your application you would need to provide
>official and unambiguous documentary evidence that the 'intense' or
>'condensed' 3 year degree that you completed included the same amount of
>work and hours etc of a 4 year degree (I assume Teaching Australia would
>also be willing to look at such evidence?).
>2) if the college still did not accept your degree as equivalent to
>4 years of academic study, there is provision under the Education (Qld
>College of Teachers) Act 2005 to be considered for registration on the
>basis of a person's education, abilities, experience and contribution to
>education. With your application you would need to provide additional
>supporting documentation, such as written professional references,
>curriculum vitae, statements of service and evidence of ongoing
>professional learning, for example.
>3) a further year of academic study at a recognised higher
>education institution in addition to your 3 year degree would meet the
>academic requirements for registration in this State. Provided there is
>at least one year of professional studies in your initial teaching
>degree, the College would not stipulate the content of the studies.
>
>I trust this information is of assistance.
>
>Heather Shaw (Mrs)
>Senior Client Services Officer
>Professional Standards
>Queensland College of Teachers
>PO Box 389
>TOOWONG QLD 4066
>Phone: (07) 3377 4747
>Toll Free: 1300 720 944
>Fax: (07) 3876 7248
>Email: [email protected]
>
>Disclaimer: This email, together with attachments, is confidential and
>intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is
>addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
>sender.
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kate Brooker [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2007 5:10 AM
>To: Enquiries
>Subject: Registering to Teach in QLD
>
>Hi,
>
>My partner and I are hoping to immigrate to Queensland and are now
>carrying out research before we apply. I have been teaching as a Primary
>School teacher in the UK for the past 5 years and would wish to continue
>my career if we successfully immigrate to Queensland.
>
>I have been in contact with Teaching Australia regarding the Skills
>Assessment required for a Visa application and I have been told that my
>qualification is not recognised and that I would fail a Skills
>Assessment.
>
>I completed a BA (Hons) Degree in Primary Education with QTS. However I
>completed this course within 3 academic years. I am told that this is
>not recognised as "comparable to at least four years of full-time
>tertiary level study (or the part-time equivalent) in Australia".
>
>Many universities in the UK are now offering the 3 year Primary
>Education Degree with longer terms and more time teaching in school as
>an 'intense'
>degree which covers exactly the same amount of work and hours as the 4
>year degree. The modules and work covered in the 3 year course are
>exactly the same as the 4 year option and many universities now only
>offer the 3 year degree.
>
>My parents are Australian Citizens, and my partner is a Secondary School
>ICT teacher, so we still have other options for the application of a
>Visa and do not see immigrating as a problem.
>
>(Question 1)
>I am however concerned that I will be unable to register with the
>Queensland College of Teachers and teach in Queensland because of this.
>Is this correct, do the Queensland College of Teachers also not
>recognise my qualifications?
>
>(Question 2)
>If the above is correct, I have been led to believe that completing a
>one year course at university which results in a qualification will
>overcome this problem. Can you please confirm this? And, if so, are
>there any requirements for this course?
>
>I would appreciate any confirmation, clarification or advice you can
>offer regarding this.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Kate Brooker.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I've arranged to visit some secondary schools whilst I'm here, and Kate is visiting a primary school - so I'll feed back any information we get from these visits...

WS

Have you heard any more information about getting Kates 3 year BEd recognised?

Simon.and.Kate

Erh, not really.

Basically, we both spent some times in schools around Townsville (me secondary and Kate primary) whilst we were in Australia this August.

I also spoke to the lady who is responsible for staffing the Townsville area at Queensland Education.

Basically, both QE and the schools indicated that they couldn't care less - as long as she is registered to teach, then they would employ her.

So our only barrier will be the Queensland College of Teachers (we had enough points without trying to claim the extra 5 for Kate's skill, so it was just me who has applied to Teaching Australia to have my skills accessed).

The last communication we had with QCT is the reply above. So, we are hoping that as the reply suggested we could do either "1", "2" or "3" - if we do "1" & "2", then we should have no problems.

Kate will have no problems with "2" (getting references etc), it's just "1" that she needs to look into more.
Hopefully she can get someone at Sheffield Hallam University to help argue her case and provide support to show that the 3 year course contained the same number of units and amount of work as a 4 year course...

The priority at the moment is getting my skills assessment back, and Visa application submitted. We're also prepared for worse case scenario of Kate not being able to teach straight away, as hopefully a family will be "in the making" ASAP!

I'll keep you posted on how her enquiries at Hallam go - and, although not for a while yet - how she gets on trying to register to teach...

WS

Thats cool, good luck with your skills assessment and visa application .

Simon.and.Kate

Update:

After contacting Patricia Young, Head of Primary and Early Years Education at Sheffield Hallam University, we now have a letter from her on SHU headed paper in our arsenal. It basically says:

So, let's see what they make of that.

We still intend to satisfy 2 of the 3 possible ways of satisfying them:
1) Letter from Uni saying that the cousre is equal to a 4 year course
2) Professional References and evidence of Professional Development.

We've already got 1 (and I must say, a cracking) reference from Kates Deputy Head. There are 2 more (inc. 1 one from the Head) on there way...

We've emailed QCT to get confirmation on a few of the things in their email, so I'll let you know how that goes...

Amandabee

Hey Kate and Simon.

I have skimmed through this. And I was in the same boat as you guys when I first arrived in Oz. I was given the option of doing one years worth of credits in education to upgrade. Not sure what happened but half way through they decided it was ok and I didn't have to continue... PHEW.

But I think I only had to do 6 courses and I was registered to teach straight away. this might be an option to fall back on. I know you would have to pay for the courses, and pass them, but at least you would be teaching

Amanda

Babsw

do you think that was because you were an established teacher? I am an nqt and doing supply at the moment, still trying to get my first fulll time job. Do you think this would be an option open to me? Sorry if you haven't a clue, just trying to find out what my chances are

Simon.and.Kate

Update:

We've been in contact with QCT alot, have worked out that Kate is 60 credit points short of their requirements.

To summerise though, Kate is doing an extra 'unit' at University which will be a 'work based project' and give 30 points. She has to go to a few meetings at uni, but then just cracks on with it her self - a bit like a mini disertation.

She can also get 30 points for mentoring ITT students, but could have just done a bigger project if this wasn't an option.

The way we see it, Kate should be able to get this done in a few months, and then apply for registration well before we arrive...

(fingers crossed)

We've kinda got over the bitterness stage and just getting on with what we need to do to allow Kate to teach in Queensland.