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Zimmerman Verdict

Zimmerman Verdict

Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:32 pm
  #676  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Important point being missed here. Others may have eluded as such but of the current batch being addressed by a few posts here, Pulaski and paranoidandroid and subsequently myself, have not said that Martin's actions or decision making justified the shooting at all. It simply, and unfortunately, made it legal.That is all. There are other issues that go above and beyond this case but as I think about the specifics, and my own quickness to jump on the outrage bus I realise that while I don't agree that it was in any way right for Zimmerman to shoot and kill Martin - I also think that those on whose side I still largely lean sometimes tend to get carried away when they see a post that appears that it even slightly hints that Martin made a mistake. He did. They both did. Of the very few facts that we can gather from this case, that is one of them.

Does that make it any less sad that he's dead? No. It doesn't make it right that he was shot either. Just because someone muses that he might have been better off running or walking away doesn't mean that person has suggested that he was asking for it, either. One can lose a lot of credibility in their argument if they jump on a point right away without considering the intent behind it (which, in many cases is reasonably apparent).

None of this changes my position - I still think the case wasn't taken as seriously as it could have been but even if it had been, Zimmerman might still have been found not guilty. Such is the law that was applied here. It still doesn't mean people can't talk about it, that it can't be kept in the public eye to go some way towards stopping it happening again, as long as we all keep our heads straight.
No, I'm sorry. Pulaski basically said that Martin caused his own death through stupidity.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:35 pm
  #677  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

[QUOTE=SultanOfSwing;10812838]Important point being missed here. Others may have eluded as such but of the current batch being addressed by a few posts here, Pulaski and paranoidandroid and subsequently myself, have not said that Martin's actions or decision making justified the shooting at all. It simply, and unfortunately, made it legal.

.................and there you have it yet again!

'Martin's actions'! Important point being missed here!

Zimmerman should have kept his ass......, ach! what's the point!

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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:37 pm
  #678  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
...... But he didn't know, how could he have known? ....
In America, it should be your working assumption, that every unknown, or known for that matter, person you see has a gun in their pocket, jacket, bag, or glovebox. It certainly is mine.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:39 pm
  #679  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
In America, it should be your working assumption, that every unknown, or known for that matter, person you see has a gun in their pocket, jacket, bag, or glovebox. It certainly is mine.
Ridiculous. That doesn't make it ok to gun down unarmed teenagers.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:39 pm
  #680  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked View Post
.......and there you have it yet again!

'Martin's actions'! Important point being missed here! .....
Unless Martin was sitting on the curb impersonating a rock, he must have performing some sort of action!
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:41 pm
  #681  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
No, I'm sorry. Pulaski basically said that Martin caused his own death through stupidity.
He worded it badly but he did make a point further down the line that he didn't think it was justified. That was what I was addressing.

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked View Post
.................and there you have it yet again!

'Martin's actions'! Important point being missed here!

Zimmerman should have kept his ass......, ach! what's the point!

Bedtime in Aus. Domani.
I tell you what, why not try reading the whole post first. I made it clear at least once that both parties made mistakes.

****ing hell, sorry I'm not toeing the party line here. Maybe we should talk about the 26 people who were killed this weekend alone in Chicago. Or were they not high profile enough?
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:42 pm
  #682  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Important point being missed here. Others may have eluded as such but of the current batch being addressed by a few posts here, Pulaski and paranoidandroid and subsequently myself, have not said that Martin's actions or decision making justified the shooting at all. It simply, and unfortunately, made it legal.
..............and there you have it!

Martin's actions. Important point being missed here!

If Zimmerman had kept his ass......, ach! what's the point!

Bedtime in Aus. Domani.

Last edited by TheEmperorIsNaked; Jul 22nd 2013 at 2:43 pm. Reason: Correcting quote facility.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:42 pm
  #683  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
Ridiculous. That doesn't make it ok to gun down unarmed teenagers.
Do you need glasses? What I said, and you quoted, has NOTHING to do with your reply.

What I meant is "people in America commonly carry guns", which I think is all I said.

Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 22nd 2013 at 2:46 pm.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:45 pm
  #684  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked View Post
..............and there you have it!

Martin's actions. Important point being missed here!

If Zimmerman had kept his ass......, ach! what's the point!

Bedtime in Aus. Domani.
You posted the same thing twice, yet didn't even do me the courtesy of reading my post fully beforehand.

Never once have I defended Zimmerman's actions. I only provided a possible explanation as to why things went the way they did in court.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:46 pm
  #685  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Do you need glasses? What I said, and you quoted, has NOTHING to do with your reply.
Basically, you're saying that a 16 year old boy should assume that everybody is armed and willing to shoot him and by him not having known that ... he caused his own death. I'm saying that just because a lot of people are armed does not mean it is okay shoot people who are too naive to realize that fact. You're blaming the victim for the shooter's bad behavior.

Last edited by Leslie; Jul 22nd 2013 at 2:49 pm.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:49 pm
  #686  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
He worded it badly but he did make a point further down the line that he didn't think it was justified. That was what I was addressing.



I tell you what, why not try reading the whole post first. I made it clear at least once that both parties made mistakes.

****ing hell, sorry I'm not toeing the party line here. Maybe we should talk about the 26 people who were killed this weekend alone in Chicago. Or were they not high profile enough?
1) Read it. One is dead. Because of the actions of the other.

2) We are talking about this case.

....And 3) See what I mean about fudging the issue?

Editing: Just read your latest post. I was trying to get the quote facility correct, it was wrong the first time.

.............don't be so quick to judge...........
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:52 pm
  #687  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
What?!?!? I have no idea how you got any of that out of what I said.

I don't believe Martin confronted anybody. The facts that we do have (despite all of the attempts to paint it as otherwise) suggest that Martin was the one who was followed and confronted. What I'm saying is that it would have been counterintuitive for him to "run" because it would have made him look guilty. Of course, if Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun and was going to shoot him, it would have made perfect sense for Martin to run --- but only under that circumstance.
We only have Zimmerman's word for what happened. Whether anyone believes him isn't relevant, because there were absolutely no witnesses to say that it didn't happen the way George Zimmerman said it did.
Did you know that Zimmerman actually underwent a lie detector test about the events?

Zimmerman getting out of the car on it's own, does not a confrontation make... Assuming he's telling the truth. The confrontation came at the point where Trayvon came up to him and allegedly said "what's your problem homie"
Zimmerman could have retreated to his car at that point (the wisest move), and waited for the police, and in turn Trayvon Martin could have not "jumped out of the bushes" and said those words, and allegedly (again, acccording to Zimmerman) then punched him.
Both were choices that could have saved the situation escalating into an unnecessary death of a young guy that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I don't even get into an exchange of words over an incident where someone cuts me off in traffic here now, because honestly that's how people get killed.
If you assume everyone is carrying a gun you'll probably stand a better chance of staying alive, in the land of the free and home of the gun wieiding brave

Last edited by paranoidandroid; Jul 22nd 2013 at 3:02 pm.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:54 pm
  #688  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked View Post
1) Read it. One is dead. Because of the actions of the other.
How is offering a theoretical situation where the dead one might have been able to stay alive in any way a bad thing?

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked View Post
2) We are talking about this case.
Really? I didn't know that

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked View Post
....And 3) See what I mean about fudging the issue?

Editing: Just read your latest post. I was trying to get the quote facility correct, it was wrong the first time.

.............don't be so quick to judge...........
I'm not fudging anything. Just pointing out selective outrage. I've been guilty of it myself (pun not intended).
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 2:58 pm
  #689  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Unless Martin was sitting on the curb impersonating a rock, he must have performing some sort of action!
Dammit! This is irresistible-logged back in.

He's dead because Zimmerman performed 'some sort of action', when he was advised not to. Martin is now dead-as a result.

I'd better go.
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Old Jul 22nd 2013, 3:00 pm
  #690  
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Default Re: Zimmerman Verdict

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
How is offering a theoretical situation where the dead one might have been able to stay alive in any way a bad thing?



Really? I didn't know that



I'm not fudging anything. Just pointing out selective outrage. I've been guilty of it myself (pun not intended).
I really look forward to discussing this with you. Tomorrow.
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