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WTF Murders/Killings in the US

WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Old Sep 5th 2021, 10:18 pm
  #2941  
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Old Sep 5th 2021, 11:49 pm
  #2942  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Riley served four years in the Marines and was honorably discharged, and then he did another three years in the reserve, Judd said. He was deployed to Iraq in 2008 and Afghanistan in 2009-2010 as a designated sharpshooter, the sheriff said.
Riley was employed by ESS Global Corp as a body guard and to provide security, Judd said. He has a concealed weapon's license and virtually no criminal history."We're not dealing with a traditional criminal here. What we're dealing with is someone who obviously had mental health issues at least this last week, had PTSD," Judd said.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/05/us/fl...ant/index.html

It sounds as though the alleged perpetrator is the victim here. He’s a survivalist, and he’s able to speak directly to god. Plus, I think in Florida open carry is legal, isn’t it?
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 12:32 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

"Prior to this morning, this guy was a war hero. He fought for his country in Afghanistan and Iraq," said Judd. "And this morning he's a cold-blooded killer."
https://www.northcountrypublicradio....dling-her-baby

It certainly is a head-scratcher for the police. What to do?
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 1:05 am
  #2944  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
https://www.northcountrypublicradio....dling-her-baby

It certainly is a head-scratcher for the police. What to do?
The guy was a trained cold-blooded killer, that's what sharpshooters and snipers have to be. He didn't become one overnight.

He probably was also a hero. But how did he get from there to here, and how does anyone stop it happening again. How long before his lawyer blames PTSD?
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 10:52 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The guy was a trained cold-blooded killer, that's what sharpshooters and snipers have to be. He didn't become one overnight.

He probably was also a hero. But how did he get from there to here, and how does anyone stop it happening again. How long before his lawyer blames PTSD?
Red flag laws. When someone says they're talking to God you should probably call the police dept.
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 10:55 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
Red flag laws. When someone says they're talking to God you should probably call the police dept.
So many televangelists.... Which one first?
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 10:18 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The guy was a trained cold-blooded killer, that's what sharpshooters and snipers have to be. He didn't become one overnight.

He probably was also a hero. But how did he get from there to here, and how does anyone stop it happening again. How long before his lawyer blames PTSD?
Well a good start in prevention would be to provide open and adequate access to mental health treatment, and stigma that still exists, and a society willing to talk about mental health disorders openly as they are willing to do about cancer and other diseases.

PTSD like other trauma based disorders are treatable, however they are complex and thus time consuming to treat requiring specialist psychologists and not just medication alone and at times medications may actually make things worse not better in these complex disorders, same with borderline, its a very complex, trauma based disorder, medications do very little, often make things worse, but same boat, complex, time consuming and thus basically impossible to access treatment without being wealthy, I imagine PTSD is no less expensive to treat and people with it face the same financial barriers to appropriate treatment










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Old Sep 7th 2021, 9:09 am
  #2948  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Well a good start in prevention would be to provide open and adequate access to mental health treatment, and stigma that still exists, and a society willing to talk about mental health disorders openly as they are willing to do about cancer and other diseases.

PTSD like other trauma based disorders are treatable, however they are complex and thus time consuming to treat requiring specialist psychologists and not just medication alone and at times medications may actually make things worse not better in these complex disorders, same with borderline, its a very complex, trauma based disorder, medications do very little, often make things worse, but same boat, complex, time consuming and thus basically impossible to access treatment without being wealthy, I imagine PTSD is no less expensive to treat and people with it face the same financial barriers to appropriate treatment
Excellent points.

Mental health support should be free. I think that would make a big difference. Mind you, I think all healthcare should be free at point-of-use.
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Old Sep 7th 2021, 9:18 pm
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In an ideal world that would be what we would have, even in systems with basic universal healthcare such as Canada, a whole slew of things are left out.

Most of your life here in BC you don't have vision coverage, dental isn't covered at all really with the one exception of, if its gotten so bad you now need hospitalization and surgery in hospital, that is covered.

If you have PTSD here your screwed if you can't self pay, because the public system wont provide the treatment you need, same with BPD and every other complex disorder that cannot be medicated as primary treatment.

I find most in Canada who defend the system haven't been in the predicament of needing a healthcare service not covered, lacking the money to pay for it so see at a good system, but once you fall through the cracks a couple times, you really see how big the cracks are, and while the system is moderately better than the US, when compared to almost every other peer country, Canada ranks near or at the bottom, so we have a lot of room for improvement but the Canadian way is basically if its better than the US, its all we need to strive for, literally bring up the flaws in the system, and the comeback 99% of the time is, at least its better than the US, like talk about setting a low bar.

I do wonder at times what makes some more violent than others, I suppose with BPD I could have very easily had a different life had I not turned the anger inward, I guess that likely one a the big factors, some turn the anger inward and others outward, and anger is a big problem with BPD, the most life altering symptom of the disorder by far and least socially acceptable emotion, but I turn mine inward, sucks for my body, but you wont go to jail for beating yourself up.

But I have no idea why I turn my anger inward and others turn it outward and lash out on innocent bystanders, must be some reasoning for it.

With BPD anyhow it was for several decades thought not to really effect men, but turns out it does in about equal numbers, just men were more likely to end up in prison and less likely to be diagnosed, where women were more likely to end up in hospital and diagnosed.

Prisons are the US and even in many ways Canada's solution to dealing with the mentally ill, they shut down the mental health facilities to save $$$ but some reason building new prisons and having a heavily expanded prison population is somehow better, but fact is prison makes all mental disorders worse due to lack of treatment and the environment, and prison itself can cause PTSD, its just a screwed up system top to bottom and we have as society in many ways criminalized mental illness rather than treat it as a medical condition needing hospitalization.

Putting someone who is a danger to society into a secure psychiatric facility isn't somehow less of a punishment vs prison, its just in such a facility instead of guards, you have medical professionals providing medical treatment with the eventual goal the person will be stable and capable of being in society, sure some never will be, but prison isn't the appropriate solution.

Sure back in the day asylums were awful, but today we have the knowledge and capability to provide safe, secure, mental health facilities run by healthcare professionals rather than Nurse Ratched, we even in western Canada we have psychiatric nurses who still have 4 years of education, they are just trained and educated on mental health rather than physical health and are Registered Psychiatric Nurses rather then Registered Nurses which to me makes more sense, but most of US and Canada don't recognize RPN's as nurses even though they are better educated and trained in mental health than majority of RN's ever will be.















Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Excellent points.

Mental health support should be free. I think that would make a big difference. Mind you, I think all healthcare should be free at point-of-use.
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Old Sep 7th 2021, 11:04 pm
  #2950  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

I should have thought that any ex serviceman suffering PTSD could get help from the VA, the problem is getting <<<SNIP>>> to go there in the first place.

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Old Sep 8th 2021, 12:01 am
  #2951  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by zzrmark View Post
I should have thought that any ex serviceman suffering PTSD could get help from the VA, the problem is getting <<<SNIP>>> to go there in the first place.
You have to know you have a problem before you get help for it.

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Sep 8th 2021 at 1:55 am. Reason: Edit to quote
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Old Sep 8th 2021, 10:23 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
You have to know you have a problem before you get help for it.
PTSD has been publicized like no other psychological injury. They know they have a problem and their spouses and parents know it. Even after screening and diagnosis the challenge is how to make it better. In Canada more soldiers who returned from Afghanistan have committed suicide than were killed by the enemy overseas. It was hitting the news over and over. People can walk across the country to raise awareness or launch fundraisers to buy emotional support dogs, but the real poser is how do we fix these soldiers? My priority would be giving them the unconditional support of the armed forces. Maybe the VA is better, but in Canada a soldier with an inconvenient problem is as likely to be discharged as treated. It isn't like it's a new disease, more like newly understood. In the mid-70's a friend's brother came up from Ohio to visit and he was on a hair-trigger for violence and very scary. His brother said that was all from Vietnam; before and after was like night and day. I've met WW2 vets who said they had trouble re-integrating as well; no surprise there. Now that we know police and firefighters and EMT's are prone to getting it too, all those occupations have to have programs for therapy. I know someone who got PTSD from 1 fight. He worked for Safeway and helped security detain a shoplifter. While they were fighting, the thief made a stream of terrible threats, and according to the psychologist, even though he had no physical injury, the trauma he was feeling was from those vehement threats. Safeway flew him to Penticton 2 or 3 times to see that psychologist, and he seems ok now. If a grocery store can take care of an employee like that, the army should be able to up their game too.
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Old Sep 8th 2021, 8:53 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

The human is not really capable of dealing with the crap we as society place on it especially with as you say soldiers, police, other first responders, and anyone can go from healthy to PTSD if you experience a sufficiently bad traumatic event/events.

I have been screaming it for years, the lack of psychologists being covered in Canada's healthcare system is a huge disservice to people and means people often cannot even access the care they need even when they are fully aware they need help.

I get that drug companies have marketed their drugs very well to make people think there is a drug for every mental health issue but that just isn't true, you can't medicate away disorders caused by traumatic events, and depending on the severity of the trauma could take many years or lifetime of treatment, but without access people have no chance, add in the fact that mental health is still very much stigmatized which also adds barriers, people can openly tell an employer they have cancer for the most part, but most employers will push you out the door in some fashion if you disclose mental health.

PTSD is one of several traumatic based disorders, and like me with another trauma based disorder well unless wealthy enough to pay 1,000 to 2,000 per month for treatment, your pretty much screwed and end up more and more isolated which further compounds the issue, isolating is 100% the worst thing for mental health disorders of all kinds, but that tends to be what happens with people with mental disorders, they end up isolated with no support and just get worse, I for example know I need help, I want help, but I don't have 1,200-1,400 a month I need to access help, so there is no help, nothing I can do about that, but shows even when people want help, know they need help, they may not be able to access help if they cannot afford it.

Things like PTSD, C-PTSD, BPD are complex and time consuming and requires specialty psychologists, not all psychologists will even treat these complex disorders, the free and low cost places wont either because these disorders are far too complex for student interns.

People always like to say oh they didn't want help, but fact is we don't know that, for all we know they wanted and tried to get help but did not have the resources available for it.

As one psychiatrist said last year about mental health awareness, its not awareness we need, its the funds to appropriately treat people that is desperately needed.




Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
PTSD has been publicized like no other psychological injury. They know they have a problem and their spouses and parents know it. Even after screening and diagnosis the challenge is how to make it better. In Canada more soldiers who returned from Afghanistan have committed suicide than were killed by the enemy overseas. It was hitting the news over and over. People can walk across the country to raise awareness or launch fundraisers to buy emotional support dogs, but the real poser is how do we fix these soldiers? My priority would be giving them the unconditional support of the armed forces. Maybe the VA is better, but in Canada a soldier with an inconvenient problem is as likely to be discharged as treated. It isn't like it's a new disease, more like newly understood. In the mid-70's a friend's brother came up from Ohio to visit and he was on a hair-trigger for violence and very scary. His brother said that was all from Vietnam; before and after was like night and day. I've met WW2 vets who said they had trouble re-integrating as well; no surprise there. Now that we know police and firefighters and EMT's are prone to getting it too, all those occupations have to have programs for therapy. I know someone who got PTSD from 1 fight. He worked for Safeway and helped security detain a shoplifter. While they were fighting, the thief made a stream of terrible threats, and according to the psychologist, even though he had no physical injury, the trauma he was feeling was from those vehement threats. Safeway flew him to Penticton 2 or 3 times to see that psychologist, and he seems ok now. If a grocery store can take care of an employee like that, the army should be able to up their game too.

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Old Sep 12th 2021, 12:43 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

I used to think that the UK's mental healthcare system was underfunded, woefully inadequate for purpose, access was tricky and that it had to be pretty far down the list for first world ccuntries approach to mental health but in comparison the US is non-existent if you aren't insured or loaded, getting someone Baker-acted in FL was a right palaver and then they'd only be held for 72 hours, presumably plenty of time for them to work out if treatment centers were going to get paid for further care, otherwise you were put back out in society.
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Old Sep 12th 2021, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

More or less how it works here in BC, except there is no coverage issue to work out, since it's a single payer universal system, they just underfund mental health considerably as the system being single payer is in general not sustainable so for it to function it requires not covering a list of healthcare needs.

In the US even the crappy ACA compliant policies have better mental health coverage than we do here in BC.

If you have PTSD or another complex disorder needing specialized treatment from psychologists over 1 or 2 or several years, your up the creek without a paddle if your not wealthy enough to self pay, to give you an idea of the cost, for my disorder which is very much the form of treatment used for PTSD and C-PTSD.

Prices in CAD$

Intake assessment which is required before treatment can begin to ensure you meet the criteria $425 to $475, about 2 hours start to finish.

On the low end which is 4 group sessions per month (1 per week) and 2 one on one sessions per month (they recommend weekly, but will permit every other week) $380 per month for one on one 2 times per month.

Total per month on the low end- $860 per month.

If you go with the minimum recommended for success based on 20-30 years of studies, your looking at $1,380 per month.

Neither are exactly easy amounts for your typical Canadian to come up with out of pocket.

We do have extended health insurance people can buy or get via employment but it generally caps mental health at $300 or $500 maximum per year so functionally its of no benefit for complex mental health issues.




Basically 2 ways to involuntarily commit someone in BC.

1- Doctor certifies a patient, in which they can hold a patient for 48 hours, to go beyond 48 hours requires to be certified by 2 doctors.
2- Court order, courts have broader power over involuntarily committing someone and can also issue warrants so police can detain someone under the mental health act.

In an emergency where someone is an immidiete threat to themselves or others, police can detain to take someone to the hospital to see a doctor, but police have no powers beyond that without a court order.

If committed without a court order by doctor certification, people or their families have the right to have their case heard by the Mental Health Review Board, they can with a lawyers help appeal their detainment to the courts.


But hospitalization doesn't mean treatment, typically in hospital you will only be medicated to keep you manageable, after a few days, you will be discharged, and sent on your way.












Originally Posted by zzrmark View Post
I used to think that the UK's mental healthcare system was underfunded, woefully inadequate for purpose, access was tricky and that it had to be pretty far down the list for first world ccuntries approach to mental health but in comparison the US is non-existent if you aren't insured or loaded, getting someone Baker-acted in FL was a right palaver and then they'd only be held for 72 hours, presumably plenty of time for them to work out if treatment centers were going to get paid for further care, otherwise you were put back out in society.
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