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Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Old Nov 23rd 2019, 8:29 pm
  #151  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
You're surpassing yourself now and looking to take the mantle of EMR.
So, Coddy, an Iranian who takes British citizenship suddenly stops being Iranian and becomes British, Yes?
Someone born on the island of Ireland is Irish, they may choose any citizenship, but they don't suddenly stop being Irish - just as someone born in England can live in Ireland and even take Irish citizenship - but it doesn't stop them being English.

However, as I keep repeating, the questions of nationality notwithstanding, this started with the claim the NI is "British" - and patently it is not, not geographically, not physically and not according to its status within the UK. Please prove me wrong.
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Old Nov 23rd 2019, 8:54 pm
  #152  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
So, Coddy, an Iranian who takes British citizenship suddenly stops being Iranian and becomes British, Yes?
Someone born on the island of Ireland is Irish, they may choose any citizenship, but they don't suddenly stop being Irish - just as someone born in England can live in Ireland and even take Irish citizenship - but it doesn't stop them being English.

However, as I keep repeating, the questions of nationality notwithstanding, this started with the claim the NI is "British" - and patently it is not, not geographically, not physically and not according to its status within the UK. Please prove me wrong.
You seem to have a remarkably well balanced view on this subject - ie. a massive chip on both shoulders.
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Old Nov 23rd 2019, 9:07 pm
  #153  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
You seem to have a remarkably well balanced view on this subject - ie. a massive chip on both shoulders.
Ho ho ho, never heard that before - usually from someone who has nothing to contribute except snide remarks.
As I've said before, the answer is easy - prove me wrong.
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Old Nov 23rd 2019, 9:23 pm
  #154  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Ho ho ho, never heard that before - usually from someone who has nothing to contribute except snide remarks.
As I've said before, the answer is easy - prove me wrong.
Nobody's biting your poor quality bait.
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Old Nov 23rd 2019, 10:09 pm
  #155  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Nobody's biting your poor quality bait.
I'm hardly the one fishing here...... but I'll accept that as the online equivalent of sour grapes.
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 2:51 am
  #156  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Sorry, your excuses for inaccuracy really don't hold water and just stating that something is, doesn't make it so. Frustrating, eh?
When you use a word, you accept its etymology, otherwise "Why Is A Raven Like A Writing Desk?" and you "just saying" means squat.
NI NOT being "British" certainly seems to trigger you!

PS - I suggest you read this https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-...ritish-subject

No, again, you saying it means zip.
NI is a constituent part of the UK, not "British Territory" - try suggesting that it is "owned", even to a Loyalist, and see how far that gets you.
Semantics are everything - God help anyone trying to follow your logic otherwise.

I'm still awaiting that document........
you're clearly some Irish nationalist. That's fine. do what you wish.
However, my points are fact. NI is British - it's not a matter of opinion. or what one wishes to accept.
It's interntaionlly recognised by law as British - hence it's British. It's how national sovereignty works.

You mention semantics - there are some arch-Scottish nationalists who don't recognise their British status. That's a personal feeling, even if the fact is they ARE British by definition since Scotland isn't independent yet.
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 2:54 am
  #157  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
For the removal of doubt

I do not deny that NI is currently a constituent part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I do not deny that those born there can choose to be British citizens, Irish citizens or both. I do deny that those born there are "British" (adjective, pertaining to Britain).

I firmly believe that the future of NI is in the hands of the population there, without outside interference, and that, should NI then wish to reunite with the rest of the island, the decision for that will be in the hands of those affected, in all 32 counties - and without outside interference. This what was agreed between the sovereign governments.

Using shorthand, "popular" descriptions and biased nomenclature has no place in a serious discussion which affects peoples lives, nor do unsupported claims to historical veracity.
And British is used to describe anything relating to the United Kingdom.
Your assertion that it solely means the island of Great Britain is false.
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 6:47 am
  #158  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by namsbabe View Post
you're clearly some Irish nationalist. That's fine. do what you wish.
However, my points are fact. NI is British - it's not a matter of opinion. or what one wishes to accept.
It's interntaionlly recognised by law as British - hence it's British. It's how national sovereignty works.

You mention semantics - there are some arch-Scottish nationalists who don't recognise their British status. That's a personal feeling, even if the fact is they ARE British by definition since Scotland isn't independent yet.
As I have said before, I have little interest in Scottish and welsh nationalism, but you clearly have a problem with it. You are both anglo-centric and play fast and loose with terminology - a dangerous thing both in historical and political terms. You have still not provided a single jot of evidence to back up your claim that NI is "British" and just saying it does not make it so. My position is clear - as are my words - NI is a part of the UK, but it is not "British" historically, geographically or culturally - and no wishful thinking on your part will make it so.
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 9:13 am
  #159  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I'm hardly the one fishing here...... but I'll accept that as the online equivalent of sour grapes.
Accept whatever you want, because nobody else cares. This is just your pathetic little itch that you can never stop scratching. It's funny as hell watching your attempts to justify your aggressive bigotry on historical events that are centuries old (not very progressive that now, is it) and even funnier when you expect modern day Brits to be humble and apologetic because of those sins of the past. I'm not the first to point this out to you either.
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 9:32 am
  #160  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

What's funny is watching Brexit (and ostensibly, the reassuring hubris) slowly descend into the abyss. As predicted.
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 10:12 am
  #161  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
So, Coddy, an Iranian who takes British citizenship suddenly stops being Iranian and becomes British, Yes?
Someone born on the island of Ireland is Irish, they may choose any citizenship, but they don't suddenly stop being Irish - just as someone born in England can live in Ireland and even take Irish citizenship - but it doesn't stop them being English.

However, as I keep repeating, the questions of nationality notwithstanding, this started with the claim the NI is "British" - and patently it is not, not geographically, not physically and not according to its status within the UK. Please prove me wrong.
You are agreeing with myself when I said much the same thing regarding EU and non-EU migration
Both Annetje and the ex--EMR----disagreed vehemently and are/were of the opinion a non-EU migrant is a "foreigner", if they take British citizenship they are 'British, and should give up all connections to the original country (EMR!!!).
No thought that most in these situations think of themselves as both.

A dear 'Irish' friend of mine, ex-nun (long story ) Born in Ireland, lived much of her life in Armagh and later the UK where she married but had an Irish passport and always thought of herself as 'Irish'.



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Old Nov 24th 2019, 10:16 am
  #162  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Accept whatever you want, because nobody else cares. This is just your pathetic little itch that you can never stop scratching. It's funny as hell watching your attempts to justify your aggressive bigotry on historical events that are centuries old (not very progressive that now, is it) and even funnier when you expect modern day Brits to be humble and apologetic because of those sins of the past. I'm not the first to point this out to you either.
Nobody expects them to be "humble and apologetic" but however to admit that they 'happened' and not try to deny and 'gloss over'.

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Old Nov 24th 2019, 10:26 am
  #163  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
So, Coddy, an Iranian who takes British citizenship suddenly stops being Iranian and becomes British, Yes?
Someone born on the island of Ireland is Irish, they may choose any citizenship, but they don't suddenly stop being Irish - just as someone born in England can live in Ireland and even take Irish citizenship - but it doesn't stop them being English.

However, as I keep repeating, the questions of nationality notwithstanding, this started with the claim the NI is "British" - and patently it is not, not geographically, not physically and not according to its status within the UK. Please prove me wrong.
Is someone born in Alaska still American? How about Hawaii?

I realise that as a Celtic nationalist, although you have taken advantage of British largesse for most of your life, you still have a deep hatred of Britain and doubtless the English specifically (the Irish always give the Scots a pass, even though NI is Ulster-Scots), but please try and refrain from insisting that black is white.

People born in NI are British upon birth, they have not moved to the UK, they are born in it so your Iranian example is irrelevant. As clearly stated in law they are British
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 10:31 am
  #164  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
You are agreeing with myself when I said much the same thing regarding EU and non-EU migration
Both Annetje and the ex--EMR----disagreed vehemently and are/were of the opinion a non-EU migrant is a "foreigner", if they take British citizenship they are 'British, and should give up all connections to the original country (EMR!!!).
No thought that most in these situations think of themselves as both.

A dear 'Irish' friend of mine, ex-nun (long story ) Born in Ireland, lived much of her life in Armagh and later the UK where she married but had an Irish passport and always thought of herself as 'Irish'.
Don't throw my name around or, at least, quote me right !
I've never said anything the way you mean it. I never made difference between EU and non EU migrants. If I did so, PROVE IT !
I never said they should give up connection to the original country. if I did so, PROVE IT !

Just to make your life easier, leave me out of your discussions and get rid of that chip !

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Old Nov 24th 2019, 10:34 am
  #165  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Is someone born in Alaska still American? How about Hawaii?

I realise that as a Celtic nationalist, although you have taken advantage of British largesse for most of your life, you still have a deep hatred of Britain and doubtless the English specifically (the Irish always give the Scots a pass, even though NI is Ulster-Scots), but please try and refrain from insisting that black is white.

People born in NI are British upon birth, they have not moved to the UK, they are born in it so your Iranian example is irrelevant. As clearly stated in law they are British
British Subjects, who currently have the dignity of Citizenship via membership of the EU. Something to be robbed from them by a minority UK govt upon exit.
The historical irony of this, and of the brutality practised in Ireland by that same govt isn't lost on me.
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