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What has p*ssed you off today...part II

What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Old Oct 31st 2019, 8:24 am
  #8581  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
In my experience it meant HR pressure to recruit the second best candidate for a job as they got us some diversity points.

Not sure about the mobility bit - does that mean a few ramps for wheelchairs?
I get pressure to 'recruit more diverse people'. We can only recruit what we attract and with a board made up of white, 50-something year old men, what do we attract? What does the business do to attract more women or BAME staff? **** all. So who applies to work for us? What is our industry made up of, predominantly? It's white men....like I am, so do we end up recruiting a large number of? Bingo, white men. ****ing idiots, think we can just go out and select only diversity tick-boxers. We go out and recruit the best people we can find, regardless of race, sex, religion etc etc. Genuinely a topic that grips my shit.

Mobility is the movement of people in our business. Which again, is totally misunderstood and unclear. Another push for us to be truly global when in reality we can't organise ourselves inside the M25.

Jesus wept today, since my previous post, has just taken a turn for the worse with an email coming from the very, very top, CCing many more senior than me, asking me rather pointed and unpleasant questions, one relating to diversity. Shall I just copy and paste the above?

CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNTS
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 8:44 am
  #8582  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I get pressure to 'recruit more diverse people'. We can only recruit what we attract and with a board made up of white, 50-something year old men, what do we attract? What does the business do to attract more women or BAME staff? **** all. So who applies to work for us? What is our industry made up of, predominantly? It's white men....like I am, so do we end up recruiting a large number of? Bingo, white men. ****ing idiots, think we can just go out and select only diversity tick-boxers. We go out and recruit the best people we can find, regardless of race, sex, religion etc etc. Genuinely a topic that grips my shit.

Mobility is the movement of people in our business. Which again, is totally misunderstood and unclear. Another push for us to be truly global when in reality we can't organise ourselves inside the M25.

Jesus wept today, since my previous post, has just taken a turn for the worse with an email coming from the very, very top, CCing many more senior than me, asking me rather pointed and unpleasant questions, one relating to diversity. Shall I just copy and paste the above?

CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNTS
As a boss who has had multiple staff over multiple countries who manage thousands of workers - ALL I wanted was the best possible person who could take the pressure off me and make my life a little better - colour, gender, sex, sexuality - honestly couldn't care less, just wanted the best possible person so my work life was eased and they contributed to my success.

A lot of my senior staff were engineers - very few women and minorities took the trouble 20-30 years ago to study engineering and then continuously work their way up gaining management skills and experience over those 25 years - hence the pool for me to choose from was overwhelmingly white and male. Ignoring any unconscious bias, non-white, non-males were like unicorns in the first place.

I guess I needed to ask some of my staff to "identify" as an ethnic minority and female (or trans etc etc) - I wonder what HR would have said to that
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 8:52 am
  #8583  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
As a boss who has had multiple staff over multiple countries who manage thousands of workers - ALL I wanted was the best possible person who could take the pressure off me and make my life a little better - colour, gender, sex, sexuality - honestly couldn't care less, just wanted the best possible person so my work life was eased and they contributed to my success.

A lot of my senior staff were engineers - very few women and minorities took the trouble 20-30 years ago to study engineering and then continuously work their way up gaining management skills and experience over those 25 years - hence the pool for me to choose from was overwhelmingly white and male. Ignoring any unconscious bias, non-white, non-males were like unicorns in the first place.

I guess I needed to ask some of my staff to "identify" as an ethnic minority and female (or trans etc etc) - I wonder what HR would have said to that
Absolutely. It's not a large resource pool which makes it really hard.
Also, it's sad to say, but we're expected by Middle Eastern clients to produce nice white, western faces for the premium prices we charge. How do I know? Because when we put someone really good in front of them for approval who isn't, they invariably get rejected. Slide in an average John Smith - boom, locked in and approved.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 9:07 am
  #8584  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Absolutely. It's not a large resource pool which makes it really hard.
Also, it's sad to say, but we're expected by Middle Eastern clients to produce nice white, western faces for the premium prices we charge. How do I know? Because when we put someone really good in front of them for approval who isn't, they invariably get rejected. Slide in an average John Smith - boom, locked in and approved.
My local hospital recruits newly trained doctors - there are more female than male medical students so they end up with a female-biased recruitment due to this discrepancy in the pool they can choose from - strangely enough I don't see a lot of complaint and pressure on the hospital about this gender bias.

Yes, I can see that being a real problem in the ME.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 10:32 am
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
at the photo LiW. A Mrs Bucket (Bouquet, Bouquet!) you could never be.
Yeah, candlelight suppers will never be my strong point.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 10:53 am
  #8586  
 
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I get pressure to 'recruit more diverse people'. We can only recruit what we attract and with a board made up of white, 50-something year old men, what do we attract? What does the business do to attract more women or BAME staff? **** all. So who applies to work for us? What is our industry made up of, predominantly? It's white men....like I am, so do we end up recruiting a large number of? Bingo, white men. ****ing idiots, think we can just go out and select only diversity tick-boxers. We go out and recruit the best people we can find, regardless of race, sex, religion etc etc. Genuinely a topic that grips my shit.

Mobility is the movement of people in our business. Which again, is totally misunderstood and unclear. Another push for us to be truly global when in reality we can't organise ourselves inside the M25.

Jesus wept today, since my previous post, has just taken a turn for the worse with an email coming from the very, very top, CCing many more senior than me, asking me rather pointed and unpleasant questions, one relating to diversity. Shall I just copy and paste the above?

CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNTS
Maybe change is gonna come. Slowly. With improvements to your pipeline. There is a big push to get women (and girls in high school) into Engineering in the US. But it's slow.

https://alltogether.swe.org/2018/09/...y-the-numbers/

Don't know about the UK. The Little Lion reports plenty of women on his civil engineering course but I'm completely sure that it's not 50% and as a heterosexual young man just out of his teens he's probably more er, focused, on women than many.
I don't agree with using racial/ethnic division to heal the results of racial/ethnic division. I think it's a philosophically flawed concept, being still based on these divisions that were fabricated and used against people in the first place. But then it's easy for me to say that since I happened to be born on the winning side of the equation and collectively we've done a piss poor job of fixing the social conditions that causes your female/non-whiteskinned pipeline problem. Clearly bias and prejudices still exist everywhere as well. You can't fix it as one lone hiring manager, and it's important to distinguish between actual hiring bias and a simple lack of candidates.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 10:59 am
  #8587  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Maybe change is gonna come. Slowly. With improvements to your pipeline. There is a big push to get women (and girls in high school) into Engineering in the US. But it's slow.

https://alltogether.swe.org/2018/09/...y-the-numbers/

Don't know about the UK. The Little Lion reports plenty of women on his civil engineering course but I'm completely sure that it's not 50% and as a heterosexual young man just out of his teens he's probably more er, focused, on women than many.
UK engineering undergraduates are approx 15% female.

It's not surprising that women are less interested in engineering than men - women tend to be more interested in people and men more interested in things.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 11:08 am
  #8588  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
UK engineering undergraduates are approx 15% female.
It's not surprising that women are less interested in engineering than men - women tend to be more interested in people and men more interested in things.
... Isn't that rather gender stereotyping CB?
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 11:17 am
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
UK engineering undergraduates are approx 15% female.

It's not surprising that women are less interested in engineering than men - women tend to be more interested in people and men more interested in things.
My son is very interested in people. Female people.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 11:19 am
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-50241821

Link to League Against Cruel Sports site
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They accept "overseas" members & every donation is most welcome.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 11:24 am
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
As a boss who has had multiple staff over multiple countries who manage thousands of workers - ALL I wanted was the best possible person who could take the pressure off me and make my life a little better - colour, gender, sex, sexuality - honestly couldn't care less, just wanted the best possible person so my work life was eased and they contributed to my success.

A lot of my senior staff were engineers - very few women and minorities took the trouble 20-30 years ago to study engineering and then continuously work their way up gaining management skills and experience over those 25 years - hence the pool for me to choose from was overwhelmingly white and male. Ignoring any unconscious bias, non-white, non-males were like unicorns in the first place.

I guess I needed to ask some of my staff to "identify" as an ethnic minority and female (or trans etc etc) - I wonder what HR would have said to that
Jesus H Christ , I can smell the BS leaking out off my computer
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 11:30 am
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
... Isn't that rather gender stereotyping CB?
No, they really are 15%.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 11:31 am
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
Jesus H Christ , I can smell the BS leaking out off my computer
Well stop typing then.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 11:49 am
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

People wearing those step counter things.

People wearing those step counter things and boots with hard heels, who walk round and round inside a small station waiting room with a stone floor at 6:30 in the bloody morning. She's stick thin anyway.
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Old Oct 31st 2019, 12:05 pm
  #8595  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Therapist tells me a need a psychiatrist consult to deal with the issues I'm having with my meds.
Dr tells me that psychiatrist consults aren't available in Ontario for "people in my situation"
Dr and me trying to figure out meds by trial and error, side effects vs benefits.

Dr keeps asking me what do i want to do (increase,decrease,try something new).
I'm the worst person in the world at the moment to try and make a rational decision about this
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